17 responses to Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff?
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    Rick
    Comment on Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? (January 26th, 2010 at 14:44)

    Well, if it isn’t the phone shanty on Orchard Road in New Wilmington! Your pic, Erik? It might be 3 miles from my sister’s, and certinly not the most attractive one around.

    Some intersting stories there – thx.

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    Doug
    Comment on Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? (January 26th, 2010 at 18:26)

    No doubt that the following verse (partial quote) is well known by the Amish:

    1 Corinthians 6: “Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? But instead, one brother goes to law against another

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    Comment on Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? (January 27th, 2010 at 05:15)

    I agree with Doug as above, and as a devout Plain, non-Anabaptist Christian, have had to contend with this myself, especally after my husband was badly injured. We chose not to sue, but with resulting great financial hardship.

    But we have also been in situations within the church where anyone else might have sued, and did not, because it would cause strife and division amongst the brethren. There is the two kingdoms principle, and we chose to follow that.

    I believe though that sometimes the lawsuit is necessary to make public the misdeed and protect others from the same malfactor. Even if the suit is for a nominal amount rather than recovery of lost capital, it creates a situation under law that prohibits the continued behaviour.

    I use wordpress, and like it, as it is very easy to manage. I’ve had trouble posting photos at times, but assume they have that straightened out, although the problem was most likely operator error.

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    Beth
    Comment on Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? (January 27th, 2010 at 05:38)

    Great articles, Erik! Can’t wait to see the new blog ~ I hope it’s the perfect fit for you. I only know Blogger and am amply confused with that so I can be no help, but I’ve heard good things about WordPress so I’m sure it’ll be a good change. Have a good day ~ ?

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    Comment on Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? (January 27th, 2010 at 06:03)

    Rick, so I’m in the right neighborhood–yes that is a rough looking one. If you click on the ‘Amish phone booths’ link you can see another one from the West side of the settlement, can’t remember the road name.

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    Mike
    Comment on Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? (January 27th, 2010 at 13:20)

    The Amish Bernie Madoff – I do believe I once bought a drill press from that guy. :)

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    garai
    Comment on Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? (January 27th, 2010 at 18:01)

    HEY ERIK COULD YOU EMAIL ME AT Garai13@yahoo.com

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    Dave Carrig
    Comment on Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? (January 30th, 2010 at 11:42)

    In regards to switching over to wordpress – I used to have a wordpress blog but had to shut it down because I would always get re-routed to porn sites just about everytime I went to make a post there. It’s been a few years – so hopefully they have the bugs worked out. I just wasn’t very happy with wordpress, Eric – I hope it is better now…

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    Comment on Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? (February 1st, 2010 at 02:26)

    Hi Dave, sounds like a very bizarre experience you had–maybe there were some issues at one point but from what I understand WordPress is basically the premier blogging platform and I don’t expect anything like that with mine.

    I’ve already really enjoyed the versatility and ability to change design on WordPress as I’ve worked with it the last few days–it just seems to offer a lot more than typepad does.

    Though there is a learning curve–I think typepad is easier to use from the start, but wordpress simply lets you do more once you get the hang of it (which I’m still doing!).

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    Comment on Amish finance and two kingdoms principles (January 27th, 2010 at 06:07)

    Amish finance and two kingdoms principles

    Doug and Madgdalena, thanks for adding some context here. This principle is taken very seriously by Amish which is why it is surprising to see(though, perhaps in some ways, it’s not).

    And Magdalena, I know a lot about ‘operator error’, and expect to encounter a few of those myself once i get on WP! But hopefully you’ll all have patience with the operator here (;

    And Beth, thanks for your wishes–we’re going to keep the design quite similar, but there are a lot of plugins and things on there that I feel can make the whole blogging experience better (from both sides).

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    Rooster Shamblin
    Comment on Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? (January 29th, 2010 at 14:57)

    http://roostershamblin.wordpress.com/ would you please spend a few minutes and read my blog. I have been raising 50 breeds of chickens for 40 years.

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    Comment on Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? (February 1st, 2010 at 17:14)

    Hello, Eric.
    First, on WordPress, I have been using it for a couple of years. Never had any problems, and it is quite versatile.
    On suing, besides going smack against the two kingdoms principle, taking people to court also runs amock of the idea of the 3rd baptism of Anabaptism– the baptism of blood, or suffering. One early Anabaptist even wrote “Righteousness can only come through suffering [evil].” In short, he meant that we can only return good for evil, if we have had evil done to us. If we have not been treated evil, we cannot return good for evil. Therefore, to live out the righteousness that Jesus laid before us, we have to pass through evil, so that we have an opportunity to do good in return for the evil done us. If all we ever get from others in this life is blessings, we can only return blessing for blessing. But when we pass through the “baptism” of having evil done to us, then–and only then–do we have the opportunity to return good for evil and produce the true righteousness of Christ.
    Ok, maybe my theological exposition has confused everyone. :-)
    But if you think it through, it is a very powerful thought, one that historic Anabaptism held strongly to.
    Mike

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    David
    Comment on Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? (February 1st, 2010 at 18:36)

    It sounds to me that this particular situation is being taken care of by his church and the government. It is regrettable, but I can see how someone from a plain background could get themselves in the situation that Mr. Sensenig did. There is a lack of knowledge about the world within the plain community due to lack of formal education and contact with the outside. Not to say that some could not run a very large business; there are some brilliant businessmen among them, for instance, the founder of CHI Overhead Door Company in Arthur, IL. But there is also an innocence coupled with an “I can do it myself” attitude that can cause problems. There is also the trust within the community that contributed to this problem.

    Still, I do not see the need for lawsuits in this case. Those who have lost “everything” will probably be viewed as those who have any other form of financial need. I think this is part of what is motivating some within the community to be critical of those within the community who have taken out lawsuits against Mr. Sensenig. The church will help those who have lost everything to get back to some financial stability, or they should. The problem will be if a number of members of one church have lost everything. My guess is that those who have taken out lawsuits will not long be members of the Old-Order community. They no longer have the mindset that will keep them there.

    Nor should this be viewed as the beginning of a trend, necessarily. Yes, the plain people groups are under more stress as a result of moving away from farming, but lawsuits will be a sign of the end of their way of life, not something that becomes accepted into their way of life. As the person who quoted 1 Cor. 6 points out, it just does not fit the Christian faith they say they have. Personally, I believe that these stresses are causing some to see the need for a real faith rather than a birthright way of life. When they have this real faith, they experience the truth of 1 Cor. 6 and cannot go to law, because now it is something inside of them, and not just a church rule.

    From someone who lives in the heart of Old-Order Mennonite territory, and not too far from Mr. Sensenig.

  • Hey Mike, I think you laid that out very clearly–thanks. It is a profound thought.

    And appreciate your input on WordPress. Still getting the hang of it but liking it.

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    Comment on Legalism and Old Order Christianity (February 2nd, 2010 at 07:51)

    Legalism and Old Order Christianity

    David, a point well made. Lawsuits and a legalistic mentality not being compatible with an Old Order manifestation of Christianity. For that reason I expect these will remain isolated cases. Though there may be some usage of legal means around the edges, as in the case of hiring lawyers to send claim letters to debtors, but stopping short of actual suing.

    And you mentioned CHI, which of course employs a good number of Amish and non-Amish in the Arthur community. I’m trying to recall though, was its founder Amish at the time, or Amish-born? It is an impressive business and job-provider in that neck of the woods.

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    David
    Comment on Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? (February 2nd, 2010 at 12:43)

    Hello Erik. I don’t remember the name of the founder of CHI. I will have to ask. Yes, he is Old-Order Amish, back then and now. I believe that he had to sell CHI four to five years ago as it was getting “too big” for his church. He has also started several other companies that needed to be turned over to others for the same reason. I also heard that he is a habitual coffee drinker…

    I am not sure if the expansion to something like 750,000 sq. ft. was before or after the sale. I also think CHI employs perhaps 500 local people. They are one of the largest overhead door companies in the United States. The founder started with nothing.

    Also, thanks for your blog on the Amish.

  • Thanks for getting back on that Dave, now that you mention it that sounds about right, a get too large and have to sell out situation.

    Selling books in the Arthur community a few years back I had a number of Amish CHI employees among my customers. For that matter doors and Amish seem to go together, especially if you consider Wayne-Dalton out in Mt. Hope, Ohio.

    Hey and I appreciate you reading!

  Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? 2 Trackbacks / Pingbacks
 
  • Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? Link

    An Amishman speaks on the Plain investment controversy | Amish America Comment on Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? (February 10th, 2010 at 11:59)

    […] An Amishman has come forward anonymously to discuss the Sensenig investment controversy, which we discussed a couple weeks back in the post "Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff?"  […]

  • Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? Link

    Amish investment fund bankruptcy Comment on Blog changes, phone booths, and an Old Order Bernie Madoff? (December 19th, 2010 at 10:59)

    […] brings to mind another financial controversy in Lancaster County earlier this year, in which an Old Order Mennonite fund manager lost large sums of money invested by around 1500 Team Mennonites and Amish.  I wouldn’t be surprised if failures such […]

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