“Leave & You’re Doomed” (Do Amish Parents Really Teach This?)
In our last conversation, Ben Riehl and I did a follow-up on the “Do Amish think they’re the only true Christians?” topic. Specifically, you may have heard some people who have left the Amish, describe being taught that they will be doomed to hell – if they leave the Amish.
I wanted to get Ben’s thoughts on this – how accurate is this, where does it come from, and is it “the norm”? You’ll find our discussion below – in both video form and full written transcript.
Are Amish children who leave taught they’ll go to hell?
Erik: You sometimes hear stories from former Amish people, not necessarily from Lancaster County – I would think of more like plainer groups where they’ll claim, or they’ll say, that, well, I was told that if I leave the Amish, then I’m gonna go to hell or I’m doomed and have a lot of fear put in them in that sense.
Can you talk about that? Is that something you’ve heard or come across? Or are there maybe communities or families that provide that message to people? It just struck me as a very fear-based way to go about it.
Ben: It is a fear-based way to go about it, and I think it has its roots in the idea or in the fact, there again, we have ideals, and we have certain aspirations for our children, and that’s something that is very universal. Everybody has certain aspirations for their children.
Not all the same, but sometimes the responses or the strategies to convince them to emulate your aspirations are rather human, misguided, not perfect, less than perfect. And that’s one of them.
But you have to bear in mind that the Amish people, generally speaking, are about commitment. That is a large part of a plain life – is the commitment to it, and the commitment to your spouse, the commitment to your community. Commitment still means a lot.
And I think sometimes that, that thing that you talked about, you know, with the fear being instilled about going to hell in a handbasket because you’re not Amish anymore, that is the good thing of commitment taken too far. Anything that’s fear based I’m a little skeptical of. But we all have fears. You know, it’s something that we all deal with.
So my response to that is you describe just right, that idea of, if you leave the Amish, you’re going to hell, as fear-based is exactly right. And it is. I think it’s rather misguided.
Erik: You listen to some of the – there have been a number of former Amish people that have come out and talked about their experience in very negative terms. And you get a sense that there is definitely some trauma there, I don’t want to use psychological terms, but something there. I certainly wouldn’t discount that.
Ben: Right.
Erik: My impression was that there’s different ways. I mean, sometimes there’s like, I would call that kind of like a dysfunctional way, just if I looked at it from the outside –
Ben: Yes, yes, yes, absolutely.
Erik: – Of being. But that’s – is that the norm among Amish people? I mean, obviously from what you’re saying, it doesn’t sound like it.
Ben: No, I mean, when our son decided he doesn’t want to be Amish anymore, we didn’t tell him that he’s going to go to hell. I mean, I’m not his judge.
We did remind him that all choices have consequences. Good ones and bad ones. But Mary helped me a lot with his choice not to be a member of the church anymore, by saying that we don’t want to miss out on any blessings by being bitter.
And I reminded James too that, you know, even though you choose not to take this commitment and heritage on, you chose not to continue to do so, you can still be a blessing to others by the fact – you can still use your heritage to bless others even if you’re not Amish anymore, if that makes any sense.
So I think you described that very correctly as dysfunctional and fear-based. And it’s not something I would say, especially, I would not say that it’s the norm.
Erik: So it’s out there, but it’s not the norm.
Ben: Exactly.
Erik: How much it’s out there, I guess, is another question, though, right?
Ben: Yeah. And it’s also something that’s, you know, somewhat universal. There’s themes, you know, if you don’t get an education, you’re. You’re going to be a loser. That’s a very common american theme.
Erik: If you don’t become a lawyer “like me”.
Ben: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Erik: If you don’t take over the family business.
Ben: Yeah. You’re going to be a failure and you’re going to become scum of the earth, etc. Etcetera. It happens. Yeah. When you have a traumatic experience like that, it leaves scars and you need to express it and you tend to do so to anybody that listens.
And sometimes it makes a good story for you to, the scars of your past, to exhibit them.
Erik: Doesn’t mean it’s not true. You say it makes a good story – doesn’t mean it’s not true. But it is a story that is compelling. I don’t know if that’s the right word, but for outsiders looking into the Amish with some preconceptions that we have about them. Well, you can see how it would appeal to hear someone…
Ben: It’s a little like us thinking that all Mormons have six wives, you know, or six dozen or whatever. You know, it’s the way it is.
Erik: It’s probably why there’s a lot of TV shows about Mormons with…
Ben: Yeah. “‘The other” is interesting. “The other” is fascinating.
Erik: Yeah, “the other” is fascinating.
Ben: Yeah. By “the other”, I mean, you know, people that are different than yourself.
Erik: Right.
Ben: Yeah.
Erik: I appreciate what you had to say on that.
For more, see:
- Amish Church Rules (The Ordnung)
- Can Amish leave – and come back?
- Baptism in the Amish Church
- Leaving The Amish: 3 People’s Stories
- Why do the Amish practice shunning?
Will anyone be doomed to hell?
It is very uncommon that anyone is said to be doomed to hell. It just seems unkind and not loving to fear people. But if it is true wouldn’t the loving thing to say, be fearful if…? Strong convictions are ok if they include everyone but if it causes division then it becomes mean and not loving. There has always been a right way and a wrong way. We always tell the ones we love to fear the wrong way. Only God sends people to hell and yet he is the most loving creature in the universe. The Bible warns people of hell often. The only way to escape hell is by believing in the gospel of Jesus. That may seem unloving to say but if it is true it is the greatest statement of love possible. Fear can be loving!
On exclusions
I read and agree with the comment below. However there are many fine points here. Leaving the Amish is not the same as leaving ‘the faith.’ Some are so tied to their denomination (examples abound) that they think that, and that is the view that cults have. The one thing that keeps us out of hell is having a real relationship with Jesus according to the Bible. There may be slight differences even with Biblical ‘denominations’ and churches, etc. but one can hop from one to another and not lose their salvation. You may be one of us who has no home church because the ones nearby are not Biblical at all. That also does not mean you will ‘lose your faith,’ your salvation, or have bought a one way ticket to hell either. Some churches can bring you closer to hell even. For some, if they leave the Amish and are ready to go ‘hog wild’ under the guise of ‘freedom,’ they may end up like the Prodigal son and things can get truly out of hand. It all just depends on the person and the circumstances.
Another related issue is how some families and communities will totally ‘ban’ a person after leaving. I recently read about a case like this on a youtube channel about the Hasidic Jews and how they are shunned and ostracized from their communities with no contact as if they are dead. Now these things I find truly heartbreaking. I also heard of it in the cults like the mormons and JW’s, the whole family cuts ties with the person who left.
From a Christian perspective, and as a strict one, I take the Biblical perspective. Consider what it says in 1 Corinthians 7 about mixed marriages. There is a couple and the husband or wife becomes a Christian but the spouse is still not a Christian. It does not say to leave them. It says to remain with them so long as they are willing to live and remain with you. If they leave, they leave and it is on them. As long as they stay there may be a chance that they do get saved. I take this approach with all relationships. There is only true fellowship among Christians. But there are other relationships. With children it is complicated because they are too young, one can only raise them and hope for the best. If I was married and my spouse left the faith, I would not leave either because in the same way he may come back by my help. As for family and friends who are not Christians or who have left, I had this situation as well and I keep them all in my life as long as they want to be. I love them and am a good example to them. There are things I do not tolerate to go on around me and in those cases I leave (one example is if they get drunk and act drunk, or participate openly in any sin, etc.). I just remove myself from the situation for the time, I do not ‘cut them off’ as tomorrow is a new day. If there is consistent bad behavior or abuse I remove myself from their presence such as a living situation or getting together with them, but I keep in contact because they may have a situation where they begin seeking God and I can help them at that time. Now if they are really bad such as they have turned themselves over to the devil in one of many ways then I may cut off ties with them, especially if they are causing problems. The gospel is always out there for anyone to find anyway nowadays. But other than extreme cases, I would invite everyone over for a holiday meal and love them and pray for them and that way your family is still in your life. I feel that this is God’s will for such situations.
Thank you for addressing a delicate topic and blessings to you.
Well and fairly said...
I occasionally (some would say “often”) object to sweeping generalities made regarding the Amish. Interestingly, I’m often told that I can’t understand or know the truth because I’ve never been Amish. Conversely, I actually had one Amish Deacon tell me that I probably know and understand more than many actual Amish do. More to the point, most religions use some degree of fear to promote their beliefs and keep commitment. The very history of the Anabaptist movement shows that clearly–the “church” hoped that the fear of being burned at the stake or otherwise killed would keep the people in line. The Amish clearly do not have a lock on using an element of fear to maintain commitment and discipline. We can and should discuss the intensity of the fear. But a study of ethics would suggestion that a large number of drivers stay at the speed limit for fear of getting caught. I will never forget a conversation with a young girl who was soon to be baptized and join the Amish church. She was quite clear that her decision was based on what she was getting, not what she was giving up. Her only fear (concern would be more accurate) was how much she was going to miss her smartphone.