Several readers shared this somewhat surprising story with me. Here’s a video showing a parade in support of President Trump, which took place Saturday in and outside of Fredericksburg, Ohio:
This is in the Holmes/Wayne County settlement. There were a reported 500 people who gathered in this small town lying just over the county border.
If you watch the video, you’ll see it is a mix of Amish buggies, other horse-drawn transport, some people riding animals, including two beasts with rather large horns(!) and drivers in motor vehicles. Most of the vehicles, including the Amish buggies, are bedecked with American flags and Trump signs.
Actual Amish people appear to make up a minority of the paraders. So how “Plain” this parade actually is, is up for debate. At least a couple of the buggies look like Swartzentruber Amish vehicles. There is a large Swartzentruber population not far from Fredericksburg.
Images: US Hub/YouTube
The drivers of the buggies appear to be younger Amish, though I was told that there is at least one married Amishman in one of them (or at least, an Amishman with a beard, which is not always a sign of marriage). And not all those traveling by animal power appear to be Amish in this parade either.
I wouldn’t expect there to be a lot of baptized church members in a parade like this, given the Amish formal separation from politics (though that doesn’t mean that Amish people don’t have political opinions). Though perhaps that formal separation is gradually shifting in some quarters, especially considering the delegation of eight Amish who visited the White House late last year.
It may be that a younger generation of Amish and those more aligned with business are more open to at least semi-public political displays.
The event was covered at least initially by the Wooster Daily Record, but the original link to that article is not working. It is still available online here in cached form. You can also see a couple of their high resolution photos here and here.
The organizer of this parade is a group called Bikers For Trump. This excerpt is from the Daily Record story, with comments from organizer Chris Cox on the Amish:
In a video, Cox said the purpose of the parade is to show Trump he has the support of the Amish and Mennonite communities and to energize community members in preparation for the upcoming election. On Dec. 20, Cox said, a group of Amish and Mennonite — including residents of Wayne and Holmes counties — visited the Oval Office.
The Amish community supports the president for his stance on abortion and the second amendment, Cox said.
“We’re not here to try to change their narrative,” Cox said. “We’re not here to talk them into voting. We already know there’s a giant swell of interest from the Amish community regarding Trump. Our goal is to give them a little louder voice. To give them a direct path to Donald Trump’s ear.”
Cox expressed surprise in the video at the turnout and support from the Amish.
The Amish have been targeted the past two election cycles by the Amish PAC, which seeks to promote voting among the Amish. The group has run advertisements in Pennsylvania and Ohio.
Only a small minority of Amish vote in political elections. The Amish do believe they should pray for their political leaders, however. They might further say that the most important “voting” they do is when they choose new ministry for the church.
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plain parade
MY DEAR DUTCH REFORMED GRANDMOTHER HAD A PHRASE SHE WOULD EXPRESS WHEN WONDERS WOULD NEVER CEASE. “WELL JUST GOES TO SHOW; NOT A CRAZY PEOPLE ARE DEAD YET.”
– CREANA DERYKE
WTF?
I’m skeptical. I can’t wrap my head around people living lives of rigid moral and religious stricture actually supporting someone utterly devoid of any trace of religious or moral stricture. It simply does not compute.
Humble, Honest, God-Fearing, Community-oriented
These are defining values for all plain communities. I can’t imagine anything more ludicrous than their support for Donald Trump, a prideful narcissist to the point of self-delusion, pathological liar, irreligious and profane, self-serving, mendacious, vengeful and bullying to an extent rarely seen or tolerated in public servants – and never in my 84 years. May God have mercy on his soul – he’s going to need it.
Like he says
Don, I wish I had said all that. Those are his most important qualities.
Shun them!
Sin of pride and probably alcohol also. And those fine horses forced into the ignominy is a further offense!
I agree with you about the horses. They are so pretty and then those ugly trump flags ruin it all.
Well said Don!
wHy?!
Uhh i honestly don’t think that this could be true. I mean, trump is legit a person who has the opposite of good Amish principles. Also trump has like, 8 rape allegations. He’s a menace. I don’t think the Amish would support a menace.
Zara, that’s what I thought the first time I saw political signage at an Amish farm and schoolhouse at a busy intersection near Wilton Wisconsin. But every election for the last 9 years they display huge signs for every Republican running in every office.
Either they are falling ignorantly for the Biblical wolf in sheep’s clothing or their lifestyle is not as it appears.
Hope
I hope this is a sign of an awakening among the Amish that their liberties are at stake too in this election. If the leftist get fully into power then our liberties will all be gone.
Which liberties do you fear you’ll lose Rozy?
cursed leftists
The leftsts have been fully in power often in the past. Are they just getting around to taking away our liberties? Oh curse those lefties and their Russian dictator friend, Vladimir Putin.
Oh wait: Putin is TRUMP’S dictator friend and Trump publicly said he would like to be a dictator. It’s easy to get confused with all the lies and the lying liars who tell them. Trump just broke his VERIFIED DOCUMENTED record of lying by going over 20,000 (twenty thousand) lies since he was in office. And that is no lie. It’s all on video and Twitter.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidmarkowitz/2020/05/05/trump-is-lying-more-than-ever-just-look-at-the-data/#4e334a621e17
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/13/donald-trump-20000-false-or-misleading-claims
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/factcheck/fact-checker-president-trump-made-19127-false-or-misleading-claims-in-1226-days/ar-BB14RCpH
Love Letters From Kim Jung Un
Not only that Geo, Trump and Communist Dictator Kim Jung Un are in love. Mind you, I’m only repeating what Trump himself said on numerous occasions. He even showed the love letters to Bob Woodward.
I voted for Trump
Thanks for posting this Eric, I got a kick out of it even if there were only a few authentic Amish in the mix. I wrote a loooooog post and it got lost in the shuffle. This may be a good thing, I sure wouldn’t want to add to any more hysteria than has already been displayed in some of the above posts.
I will vote for Trump AGAIN this election. To me it’s not about guns and abortion, but it sure has a lot to do with the first amendment. Freedom of speech, in case no one has noticed, we’re losing it in a speedy fashion. If you say you like Trump, wear a MAGA hat or even fly our flag, you will be harassed, unfriended, canceled or even fired. With my Amish background and my 8th grade education, I guess I’m one of those uneducated, illiterate rubes that Rick Wilson so kindly called me. You know, one of those deplorables, as Hillary described me. So be it. It’s still a free country. You vote for whoever you want to, I don’t care, but allow me to vote for Trump without becoming hysterical.
1st Amendment
Well if you care one ioda about the 1st. Amendment, then you are once again voting against your own interest. Please tell me why you’re ok with the gov’t trying to designate peaceful protesters, as a terrorist org. Thomas Jefferson stated that the greatest form of patriotism is dissent.
Why would you want to vote for Trump when he locks up innocent women and children in cages, simply because they are desperately fleeing from violence and poverty, which in large part, are due to U.S. interference in their Central American countries. Now we’re finding out that Ice has been performing mass sterilizations on the women by performing partial or complete hysterectomies. In my view “Ice” is the equivalent to Nazi Germany’s Gestapo. But apparently that’s the kind of president you’re proud to vote for. Good luck with that.
Trump doesn’t measure up
Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, but those who act faithfully are his delight. Proverbs 12:22
There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.
Proverbs 6:15-19
How can you speak good things, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 The good person brings good things out of a good treasure, and the evil person brings evil things out of an evil treasure. 36 I tell you, on the day of judgment you will have to give an account for every careless word you utter; 37 for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
Matthew 12:34-40
1. Haughty eyes: arrogance — “I alone can save you.”
2. A lying tongue — 20,000+ documented lies
3. Hands that she’d innocent blood — children separated from their mothers at the southern border; keeping truth from the American people about the coronavirus
4. A heart that devises wicked plans — children separated from their mothers at the southern border; devising multiple ways to discount the vote
5. Feet that make haste to run to evil — he has acknowledged through words and actions sexual misconduct with women he doesn’t know and has committed adultery — and continues to do so; he bargains against our country’s well-being to line his own ambitions for power
6. A false witness who breathes out lies — he has spoken falsely against others; he lies
7. Sows discord among brothers — through hate speech, through untoward drawing of lines between his supporters and those who oppose his agenda (more than just Democratsi) he pits us against one another. He redefines terms like “liberal” and “American values “ to further an agenda that personally benefits him. He’s corrupt. Note how many of his closest assistants, aides, and cabinet persons have been convicted of felonies—?and how many are chosen to counter those initiatives and laws that protect our country from malfeasance.
I, too, am a faithful follower of the Lord. I vote mostly for Democratic candidates because their party platform coincides with my values of justice and kindness. That said, in 2016, I would have voted for John Kasich, a Republican, if he had been the candidate instead of T: Governor Kasich is honest and of upright character. He would have been a good leader.
I am thoroughly dismayed by people who strive to live G-d’s ways and are “fooled”(?) / swayed by this man’s rhetoric or charisma. I’m still trying to figure it out.
MAGA
The article says why: Pres. Trump’s stance on abortion and the Second Amendment. Two issues very important to the Amish, I would suspect.
Pres. Trump’s opponent would trample on both.
says who?
“Trump’s opponent” can at least be taken at his word, where as the mendacious Donald will, as a historical record, says anything to seduce gullible people. Promises of a liar aren’t worth a lot. “Richard” is either a Russian troll here to stir division or a demented soul who drank the KoolAid. In either case, lord have mercy on him.
Religion's deep hypocrisy
I never thought I would see this unfold in my lifetime, but never the less, hear we are. The Amish, if they truly believe in religion, are practically begging the american electorate to vote in a a hitler like minded fascist.
That’s why I left the Amish 51 yrs. ago.
My guess is that the religious community that supports this diabolical monster in our whitehouse, would be just fine with a fascist type gov’t. If you religious people think for one moment, that this fascist gives a rats behind about you, you’re sadly mistaken.
I’m glad I won’t be around much longer, because then I won’t have to witness it when they come after Amish communities in this country. Aren’t we lucky, we’ll be the next Nazi Germany.
me too
Me too John, Except I don’t for a moment accept that the Amish as a people support Trump. A few at most. Amish values are simply too inconsistent with Trump’s behavior. I also disagree with your equating of Trump to Hitler. Hitler, in spite of his evil ideas and all the damage he did, served in war, was decorated for bravery, was a genuine war hero. To all appearances Hitler was not a habitual liar but sincerely believed his wrong headed ideas. Compare Trump, a draft dodger who thinks serving your country makes you a fool, who’s only sincere belief is Trump should win all the time at any cost (as long as the cost falls on others).
Maybe
You might be right with the Hitler thing. However, I do believe if it would serve his self serving purpose, he just might go there.
Preident Trump has kept his word on curtailing abortions, and us funding it, including those Obama funded worldwide. Compared to Hitler trying to wipe out ALL Jews, killing 6 MILLION of them and many other people with the war he started trying to dominate the entire world with communism.
“Since his election to the executive office, President Trump and his administration have taken consistent action to promote the pro-life movement and protect the sanctity of life. In 2020 President Trump became the first sitting President to address the annual March for Life in person[2] and was also the first sitting President to address the March for Life live through satellite in 2018.[3] These actions alone have earned him the label of “Making History in Condemning Abortion” from abortion providers and advocates of such as Planned Parenthood.[4] Further, he “made history” by being the first President in United States history to “single out” Planned Parenthood for defunding on the first page of his 2018 budget.[5] President Trump has asked Congress to pass legislation to end late term abortions, reinstated and expanded policies prohibiting international aid from funding oversees abortions, and has issued a ruling reforming Title X family planning funds preventing them from funding entities that provide abortions.[6] Since being elected and sworn in as President of the United States, President Trump’s administration has consistently supported policies that promote and protect life over abortion in the United States as well as internationally.” https://eclj.org/abortion/un/donald-trumps-pro-life-achievements-2016-2020
From the Far Left
You’ll never meet anyone further to the left than I. The only guns we want to take away from you are your high capacity weapons of war designed to kill lots of people in a short time. Keep your registered target pistols, hunting rifles, and shotguns. And we wholeheartedly support a woman’s right to choose whether to have an abortion or not. If she chooses not to, we respect that. If she decides to abort, we respect that as well. If you decide to consign her to hell for doing so, I would gently suggest that the fate of her eternal soul is not your responsibility nor within your ability to decide.
Hear Hear!!!
Mr. Wilkin, I am myself as far left as you. I just bet if you asked any man in this country, or as matter of fact in the world, if ever a woman should be allowed to determine what he could do with his body, he would most likely tell you to stick it where the sun don’t shine. But yet here are men pretending it is their duty to abuse their women. In reality, it is abuse of the worst kind. But I digress.
Male abortions?
John Keim, you nailed it and I believe that’s an additional way abortion is guaranteed by the Constitution. Under the guarantee of equal protection, laws must apply equally to males and females. I don’t know if that was ever raised in SCOTUS deliberations over abortion, but if the right is ever seriously challenged, I feel sure equal protection will be an issue.
So late term abortions are OK with you? How about killing those babies surviving abortion? Should it be legal to kill them too? Because that’s what the left is trying to legalize next.
My guns
Agreed Don. All the claptrap about abortion and guns is obviously aimed at people’s emotions. I am uncomfortable with abortion, but my feelings should not have force of law and should not restrict anyone’s rights. Abortion is a right protected by the right to privacy in the Constitution and as such, will be a stretch (in my opinion) to overturn, even by the extreme right wing court that Trump is aiming for.
As for guns? The lying liars warned me Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama, would ALL come after my guns but none ever did. As a good citizen who wants no trouble, I stacked my gun by the door ready to turn over to the Presidents. They just never showed up. Now I hear Presidents don’t have the power to take our guns. Well who knew? I think I’ll just put them away again..
Just because we may have right to do a thing does not make it right. There are laws higher than the laws of this land. One of the most important is, “Thou shalt not kill.”
Most abortions are used as late, careless, selfish, and cruel birth control. They are unnecessary and unconscionable.
Good comments from Leo and Mr. Keim
I guess some Amish want to ignore the 10 Commandments–specifically Thou shalt not commit adultery. Trump has cheated on 3 wives and even was with a prostitute–Stormy Daniels, when Melania was home with the new baby. Then, Trump had Fixer Cohen write a check to Daniels in 2016 to keep her mouth shut about the affair. $130,000! Then, Trump lied about the affair and money. Ditto the Playboy bunny Trump had an affair with. She got $100,000! Trump lied about that one, too, but Fixer Cohen has rightly turned against Trump and admitted both affairs and pay-offs. Trump is the DEVIL INCARNATE! He shouldn’t be in the White House, he should be in jail!
Good for the Amish!
I am also a Trump supporter, & Trump is known to be a great supporter of Christians & Israel. The haters on here with Trump derangement syndrome have to realize that their opinions are only that & Trumps opponent has like allegations on his record (lying, etc).
I wish the Amish were more involved, they live here too.
Join Them
So Debbie, since you don’t know anything about Trump, why don’t you try reading about him for once.
Also, if you the Amish life is such wonderful life, why don’t you fully commit yourself to their lifestyle? I can’t think of any other group of people in the U.S., that gets more special privileges afforded to them, then the Amish do.
So John, since you so dislike the Amish, what are you doing on this site? You appear to be looking for an argument. Let me just say that I DO know about Pres Trump. Maybe you’d need to read about him. I suppose you have been getting your “facts” from his attackers.
Amish support for Trump
The support for Trump is pretty robust within the various Amish communities, at least in Wayne and Holmes County. Even among people who would never vote. In my mind it is coinciding with a growing fear among bishops and church members that they are losing some control of the membership. Amish people have never supported things like abortion or civil rights for LGBT people but that has always been an issue for the outside world. They were confident that their members would be far away from those kinds of discussions and decisions. As Amish people are more exposed to the outside world via smart phones and personal interactions there is a bigger push to make the outside world conform to their values. rather than exist side-by-side. There is probably a bigger fear that a young Amish person will come out of the closet or choose to end their pregnancy today then there was 10 years ago. And I think that is driving the increase in political awareness more than anything
Thom: Interesting. In other words, Amish voting for the conservative who most reflects their values, realizing the outside world does affect them, or influences their children.
Hate
I am 63 years old and in all my years I have never seen so many adults act like a bunch of school yard children. Grow up! Maybe the Amish see all the hate the left has in their heart and want nothing to do with it. Trump isn’t no Angel but the left has proven that they have the hate of Satan driving them.
Satan
David, please tell us all about the “hate of Satan” which the “left” has proven to you. I’m open to being convinced. “Hate of Satan” doesn’t give me much information to go on. Or are you just Putin’s agitator?
Geo, I’ve got some questions. Are the villains in your nightmares Russian too? Does “Russian” just mean “someone who disagrees with Geo”? I’m teasing you, but man you are up to four Russian accusations/references already just on this post. Could that mean I end up becoming Russian on one of these posts too? 😉
That would be funny if I do end up qualifying as Russian since I grew up with Russia as sort of the bogeyman too, but that’s because they (well, the Soviets, to be fair) kinda clamped actual life-destroying communism on my family and loved ones in the past. Though I’ve met some actual Russians over the years and mostly found them to be pretty pleasant in person. Though come to think of it, those maybe weren’t Russian bots, which are the ones I’ve heard I should beware of.
Hate
Sure is a lot of hate here. Hate does nothing but cause hate. Knowledge is how change happens.
Derangement syndrome?
“Debbie” writes about “Trump derangement syndrome”, a phenomenon that defies rational understanding. She projects her own delusions on others. I would ask “Debbie” how far would Trump need to descend into outrage before she would turn against him? Could he really commit murder in public without losing her support? Is “Debbie” a delusional person willing to drink Trump’s KoolAid? Or is it really Boris or Ivan from the Kremlin troll operation? Delusional or a paid Russian troublemaker? Which are you Debbie? It’s a strange election with outside foreign agitators and delusional domestic fanatics.
Geo says he doesn’t see any name calling, but calls me “delusional or a Russian agitator”. Geo, your statements appear delusional if not paranoid, and typical of the left wing socialist attacks on Trump. Most people like myself have had enough of this extreme hatred and will vote for Trump. We will see come November who wins.
Disappointed
I have been a subscriber for many years and have enjoyed all of your posts. This time, however, I am very disappointed in how you have allowed most of the comments to be anti President Trump. The name calling is totally unnecessary. All of the Amish have minds of their own and can voice their own opinions according to their religious beliefs. If these Anti President Trump commenters think Biden is the better person to be president that is their choice but for now and hopefully for the next 4+ years Donald Trump is and will be our President. Amish do not believe in abortion but Biden and Harris do. I am so very disappointed in your handling of these comments, Eric.
Hi Ruth,
Please don’t take the comments existing on this page as any endorsement from me, of anything written by other commenters of a political nature here.
I think people are angry, and I guess anytime a political topic comes up, it’s an instant chance to vent. Particularly at this time.
I expected this type of thing. I do hope people can get over the anger and work on what they can control in their own lives. You can judge the comments however you wish by their content.
Though, I was hoping for more dispassionate comments on the actual phenomenon of Amish participating in politics, such as Thom’s above (thanks, Thom!). But these are the times.
So, I see this as something like a public service confined to one thread, since it does have a political connection. If similar comments were to randomly appear on other unrelated threads, that wouldn’t be tolerated.
Syndrome
Ruth I didn’t see name calling here. Criticism is not name calling. Childish name calling has famously been Trump’s signature tactic. Since Trump loves insulting playground bully taunts, why is it wrong call him names? Please explain your reasoning, if any there be.
1st. Amendment
Ruth, just curious, have you ever read the first 1st Amendment of the constitution? Here it is, just in case you haven’t. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
An authoritarian or dictator type gov’t would advocate for what you just you just suggested Eric should do. If you’re not able to accept constructive criticism from someone, then maybe it’s you that needs some self reflection. Eric is a messenger, and that’s all.
Billions could die
Even if you are willing to overlook Trump’s criminality, his mendacity, and his psychopathic vengefulness. his ignorance and disdain of science is already killing us to the tune of 100,000 unnecessary American deaths from federal mismanagement of the COVID pandemic. It will get worse. His rejection of climate and environmental science means we will not be ready three decades from now when we will be overwhelmed by far more extreme hurricanes, wildfires, droughts, floods, lethal temperatures, soil destruction, fossil fuel depletion, and unsustainable human population numbers. Literally billions will die from crowding and pandemics, starvation, excessive temperatures, and wars over water and farmland.
Old Order Amish and Mennonites, if they universally adopted organic/regenerative farming, and slowed down their reproduction, could show us the way out of this mess and into a healthier post-carbon world with their strong communitarian values. a concept entirely alien to Trump and his minions.
billions
Don, billions sounds a bit over the top but that being said, a glaring difference between your post and the Trump-fan posts is that your post is reasoned. Trump-fan posts tend to be purely rhetorical.
Over the top
Geo – for fifty-three years I have studied the human condition and Earth’s human carrying capacity. Under the most generous assumptions, in a post-carbon world with depleted soils and a destroyed climate, sustainable human carrying capacity with an acceptable quality of life will be no more than a billion, more realistically half that or less. The excess seven, eight, or nine billion humans cannot be sustained. They will die prematurely by the billions, even if we ration everybody back to bare subsistence consumption. The only humane way to reduce our human numbers to the extent necessary would be to reduce our reproductive rate to single-child families. What is the likelihood of THAT??? Unless you know something I don’t, it isn’t going to happen no matter how miserable the alternative. If I weren’t so old, I would choose to live an Old Order farming life for the rest of this century (without the proliferation of babies.)
Amish Farming
Don, I have to admit, I wouldn’t mind that type farming at all. I grew up on an old order amish farm in Ohio back in 50’s and 60’s. I was plowing the fields when I was ten years old. I walked behind a one bottom plow with two horses. I could probably live like that again, but without the religious bs.
evidence
Don without knowing what evidence supports your conclusions, you sound like you have done your homework and your reasons go beyond naked ideology that drives so many beliefs. My own conclusions turned out questionable or downright wrong so often that at my advanced age, the only thing I’m sure of is I can’t be sure of anything prospective. I only know I don’t know what’s coming up. I’d like to live forever if only to see how the human drama plays out.
I lean more conservative, but I couldn’t really see too many actual Amish in the clips on Youtube. There may have been 1 or 2, but it looks like most of the people in the buggies are non-Amish who probably borrowed the buggies. Are grey top buggies common in Ohio by the way?
No, the majority of people that I saw were non-Amish (even though a lot of media promoted it as an “Amish” parade). Some were visibly likely Amish youth; I do believe I saw at least one beard. The ones who are driving horse-drawn carts and the like and don’t look Amish might be Amish-raised or have Amish family and hence the ability with the horses. Did you notice a grey top buggy? (a la Lancaster)? I did not catch that.
Debate is good, but not when it contains so much hate toward people, including our President. We need more respect and civility. We need to attack problems not people.
We need both good Democrats & good Republicans. Extremism is what’s causing division. Too far right is fascism. Too far left is socialism, communism, and anarchy. Extremes in either direction are Marxist.
It’s like being in a family where the Dad is too strict and the Mom is too lenient, and they fight constantly over power, when both are what is needed with mutual love. listening to one another but expressing ourselves respectfully.
Corrupt Gov't.
Stephanie, I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment. However, we have a corrupt congress and presidency to likes this has never experienced before. Ever since the scotus declared that money is speech and corps. are people, they opened the floodgates for corruption. In essence, the Supreme of the United States said, it is legal for corps. and lobbyists to bribe politicians.
I don’t know how old you are, Beginning in the early 80’s, lobbyists started writing the legislation for congress, while the Reps. and Senators held their pants pockets and their purses open so the lobbyists can stuff them full of campaign cash.
That is also when the erosion began of standing up for working men and women of this country.
I could go on and on with a slew of more corruption that I haven’t mentioned. I would venture to say that about 90% of Reps. and Senators are bought and paid for by corp. america. Yes the democratic and republican parties are both deeply corrupt.
Can Not Wrap My Mind Around
I sincerely can not wrap my mind around why anyone would support Trump after all he’s done/not done. In 2016 I did vote for him; only because IMO he was the “lesser of two evils.”
There’s absolutely no way I’d vote for him again. I’ll be voting for Biden; because he’s DEFINITELY the “lesser of two evils!”
I realize that there are extremely loyal Republicans and Democrats that’d vote for Porky Pig or the like if he was running; simply because he would be a Republican or Democrat. That’s another concept I sincerely can not nor never have been able to wrap my mind around.
Stephanie Said it Best
I couldn’t agree more with Stepanie. We must find a way to work together for what we all want – a democratic republic that promotes peace, security, prosperity, opportunity, loving, supporting communities and a sustainable world. That said, I have lived during the administrations of 14 different presidents, some of whom I agreed with and some of whom I didn’t. All but one were various shades of honorable, honest, decent men, committed to the well-being of our country as they saw it. Only one, in the opinion of 500+ former government officials, not just mine, is completely unsuited for the job. It is a mystery to me how this deceitful, duplicitous fellow got elected, but it shouldn’t keep the rest of us from working together for the benefit of all. This fellow unfortunately stands in the way of our doing that. After another four years of the same divisive administration (or twenty-four years, as he would prefer), we will be not just farther from the democratic republic we all want, it may be completely out of reach. There has never been a more perilous time for our republic.
Another plus of free speech
I just had a closer look at some of the comments. The Hitler/Nazi stuff here is pretty off the wall. I find the distance of time and geography plus a comfortable historical ignorance tends to enable that kind of thing.
I’d encourage anyone making such comparisons to investigate more closely the differences between 2020 America and 1942 occupied Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp#History
As a side note, one reason I strongly favor open free speech is you get to find out what kind of “interesting” ideas people are thinking. Because they’ll just tell you. I find that knowledge useful and might even help keep you out of trouble 😉
Free Speech
Thank you Eric, I couldn’t agree more. My ideology is a form social democracy, where every american citizen from the poorest to the most well off, have a right to the same healthcare, education, food, and shelter. That’s mostly what the left stands for in this country. I have never been able to figure why people think that type of stance is communist or authoritarian.
All we lefties want is for our citizens to be live a free and happy life. I don’t don’t why it’s so awful to not want any humans to go hungry.
There was recently a study by a group of Epidemiologists that determined an average of 68,000 americans die every year, because they can’t afford to go the doctor. An estimated 500,000 medical bankruptcies occur every year.
Agreeing with John
You’ve said it just the way I think it, John. Wanting a widely shared decent quality of life as a basic human right is a social democratic principle. Why should it not be? We are, after all, a social species whose success depends on how well we work together, sharing, caring, and cooperating. The plain communities have much to teach us in this regard.
You want to live a free and happy life? Who is going to pay for all this FREE healthcare?
That’s easy, Cliff. Those that have share their wealth with those who have not. Just like Jesus teaches. The divide between rich and poor has widened far beyond what He intended. I
The difference is under communism the state confiscates and owns everything and disperses it how they see fit. There are no property rights, no gun rights, all is given and taken by those in power at the time. Here Jordan Peterson on where Marxist “charity” leads, he says it best at 15:04 -17:06 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwHcb9IuNLc
We all will
We all will, according to our ability to pay. It’s a national insurance policy with progressive premiums and little wasted on excess profits. As for ownership, communism and state socialism are failed experiments. Social democracy is not. You value and take care of what you own, that much has become clear. Private property subject only to necessary public responsibility, with the ability to invest in improvements and to freely buy and sell it, as in our current system, is a fundamental value in social democracy. This is the system in Denmark and Sweden, which have been trading off “happiest nations in the world” status recently. Yes, taxes are high – but, as in all things, you get what you pay for. That is actually only half right. They pay half what we do for health care and get better results.
Biden
Not sure how Joe can make Presidential decisions both nationally and internationally using a teleprompter.
Patty Thomas, that’s a petty, trite talking point. Yes President Biden will no doubt use a teleprompter as an aid for public speaking. Yes, Barack Obama used them. So did the Presidents Bush. Democrats, Independents and Republicans all have and will continue to use then until someone comes uo with something even better. President Trump uses them, too, Patty.
Joni
Having a Presidential candidate with Dementia is not trite. Poor Joe Biden.
Political Discussion
Some political comments, even critical ones, are worth at least reading and thinking about. Some, clearly, are not. The regrettable thing is you have to read them first to know which is which. Oh well, at least Patty’s was mercifully short.
Disappointed in the comments
Looking at these comments makes me wish this story was never posted. Unsurprisingly, it has become yet another opportunity for people to latch on to their own preconceived judgments and practice hate-thy-neighbor politics. What a depressing and shameful display!
Don Wilkins
Sorry you can’t see Joe’s problem. It will become more obvious as time passes. You are a close minded person. Anyway I really would rather read about the Amish way of life and curious as to why they leaned right, not to bash them for their political choice like so many here have. Have a pleasant day and make sure you vote. God Bless!
Patty Thomas
Might I ask which degree(s) you have earned which qualify you to make this diagnosis?
Politics is just a more civilized way of going to war (with guns). It causes less chaos and destruction. Most people want a more secure life, with lasting prosperity. Perhaps if we study true principles of freedom more, there would be more unity.
The founders of this nation carefully built our Constitution in ways that enable liberty the most. They studied many different governments throughout history and the nature of mankind. No system is perfect, but the US Constitutional law is the best. That’s why so many people worldwide want to come here. See, The Law, by Frederic Bastiat, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIbDIiHIPt0
See also, an excellent free class on the US Constitution:
https://online.hillsdale.edu/landing/constitution-101
On Politics and CIvilization
Thank you, Stephanie, for your thoughtful and reasonable comments. You are the sort of conservative I could disagree with peacably and productively, the essence of civil discourse, the heart and soul of civilization. Unlike you, I don’t see politics as a form of war. I see war as a failure of politics.
One essence of a healthy and productive civilization is either avoiding or peacefully resolving conflicts between individual freedoms and our responsibility to the larger group. The larger and more complex the community, the more our individual responsibilities to it must constrain our individual freedoms, in order to keep the peace. Peaceful resolution or avoidance of conflict involves communication, negotiation, diplomacy, politics, rules, regulations, religious prescriptions, laws, manners, mores folkways, and traditions, to name a few. When these conflict resolution or conflict avoidance tools fail, war can erupt, which is obviously terribly counterproductive. The more adamantly one insists on individual freedom, the more likely these negotiating tools are to fail. I question that an uncompromising commitment to individual freedom over every other consideration is what our founding fathers had in mind. That would be unworkable in any community.
The Amish have resolved civilization’s fundamental conflict in favor of responsibility to the group, surely one of the reasons for their success as a group. Individual freedom still exists, but it is strongly tempered by responsibility to the group. That’s a progressive, not conservative, value in my estimation.
I appreciate the civil tone and tenor of your comments, Stephanie. Your conservative commitment to individual freedom is certainly a natural human tendency but increasingly anachronistic in a world of 8 billion people and growing. We are a social species. It’s the “social” part we need to get better at if we want to survive in these huge numbers. That’s why I am more a progressive socialist than a conservative.
Thank you, Don. Respect for each individual and our rights, was taught by Jesus Christ and can be balanced with the needs of the group by increasing morality and enlightenment in self governance. Obedience to God’s law is what propagates greater freedom and prosperity. This is what drove our ancestors to help establish liberty here, after breaking free over generations from the shackles of the ignorance and darkness. Our ancestors were a crucial part of an overwhelming movement to help establish better governments in the western world, starting with the United States Constitution. The needs of the group do not compete with the liberties of the individual when sacrifices are voluntary.
Different Degrees of Leftism
I think the confusion with Democratic party is the differences of how far left they may or may not be. Their Party seems to have been hijacked by the radical leftists, a time when China is a huge threat. We are basically on the verge of war with them (See China task force report. See also Dr. Li-Meng Yan, Chinese Virologist Whistleblower reports & interviews).
On the Amish and War with China
To take this thread back to Amish relevance, I am one of Stephanie’s radical leftists doing my best to hijack the Democratic party. I believe that avoiding war is one of our most important social responsibilities, strongly in keeping with the Amish refusal to participate in war. Americans need to understand that China has ABSOLUTELY NO interest in going to war with us, it would be suicidal on their part unless Russia agreed to ally itself with them. Even then, it would barely be a fair fight, and they would avoid it as long as they could. The present danger is that, as with the Iraqi war, Americans could be convinced by the administration that war with China is inevitable and unavoidable, and the Chinese could be bullied into taking some “provocative” action by our escalating insults and goading. If it were remotely possible, I would put the Amish in charge of diplomacy with China to work out a more peaceful and productive relationship between our two countries, one that involved progressively more understanding, sharing, and cooperating. The Amish would certainly do a better job than the current administration, which has gutted our State Department and deliberately raised the heat on China, for reasons and goals entirely unclear. We don’t really know what positive relationships could be worked out between the two largest economies on the planet until we actually explored them. That’s not the direction we are currently headed. My fellow radical leftists and I would change that, if we could. War must be a last resort and then only if forced upon us.