Have The Amish Reached Herd Immunity?
Up to 90% of Lancaster County Plain families have had at least one family member infected with COVID-19, according to a local health center administrator. From Lancaster Online:
Late last spring a COVID-19 wave tore through the Plain community when they resumed church services, infecting an untold number of Amish and Mennonites in Lancaster County.
The administrator of a medical center in the heart of the Amish community in New Holland Borough estimates as many as 90% of Plain families have since had at least one family member infected, and that this religious enclave achieved what no other community in the United States has: herd immunity.
“So, you would think if COVID was as contagious as they say, it would go through like a tsunami; and it did,” said Allen Hoover, an Old Order Mennonite and administrator of the Parochial Medical Center, a clinic that primarily serves the Plain community.
What about the herd immunity question? Several infectious disease experts raise concerns with the idea that the Amish might be protected via herd immunity:
“Herd immunity is only true at a given point in time,” said Eric Lofgren, an infectious disease epidemiologist at Washington State University. “It’s not a switch that once it gets thrown, you’re good. It’ll wear off.”
This collision of science and personal experience could leave Lancaster County vulnerable just as county health officials seek to make progress vaccinating residents against COVID-19.
“You can have a long period where you think everything is OK, but you have this whole population that’s susceptible,” said David Lo, professor of biomedical sciences and senior associate dean of research at the University of California, Riverside.
Lo added, “All it takes is one person who’s contagious to give you this sudden outbreak.”
Hoover, who is a member of the Plain community as an Old Order Mennonite, feels the county’s Plain segment sees itself as outside public health directives – at least in part due to this perception of immunity:
“As a general rule, we want to respect those around us,” said Hoover, who has been the medical center’s administrator since 2004. But because of perceived immunity, Hoover said, the Plain community believes public health directives don’t “apply to us.”
It’s a perspective Hoover understands, but doesn’t share.
“We should be careful that we’re not the cause of it spreading,” Hoover said.
The Parochial Medical Center is “arguably the largest” center catering to the Plain population, with 33,000 patients. Measuring how many actually had COVID has been difficult, as Hoover explains:
Just how deep into the community the infections spread is impossible to know. Hoover speculated that among those displaying symptoms, fewer than 10% consented to be tested.
In late April and early May, when Hoover said the virus ran unimpeded through the Plain community, the county’s positivity rate — the percent of positive tests — exceeded 20%, its highest of the pandemic, according to Covid Act Now, a nonprofit that provides local disease data. (Last year, the World Health Organization recommended governments use a rate of 5% or lower for two weeks as the threshold for reopening.)
If Hoover’s assessment is accurate, and if more Plain patients had been tested, the positivity rate could very well have been higher.
While so few were tested, many exhibited all the symptoms that have become so emblematic of the disease.
Cooper estimated the medical center saw — on average — nearly a dozen infections a day, or roughly 15% of the patients it serves daily.
Another specialist says that herd immunity in a general population like the Plain community would be “extremely unusual”, but possible. “It would be the first general population in the United States that’s done it,” according to Eric Lofgren, an epidemiologist at Washington State University.
Cases “now rare”
The Parochial Medical Center saw higher numbers of patients in the spring and later again in the autumn.
I have heard something similar about the northern Indiana Amish community (Elkhart-LaGrange counties). The story there is that the Amish experienced two waves of COVID last year: one in June to early July, and a second wave in late October to early November. There is a similar belief there that the Amish community has pretty much been thoroughly exposed, and likewise few if any are concerned about it.
At the Parochial Medical Center, “cases now are rare”. It’s been six weeks since they have seen a patient with COVID symptoms.
Herd immunity. YES
If you live among plain community the answer about herd immunity is quite evident. The rest of run us around with one or maybe two masks and live in fear of a human hug. Not the Amish. They get. Don’t tell the CDC this!
Opposite of Health is FEAR: The Amish Do Not Fear
Love this article.
Proves to me that a person (or community’s) Faith is the provider of
health in our temporary physical body.
I do not plan to get a vaccination and I only wear a mask when I have to (such as going into a store). I will do all of this as long as I am able to even though I am aware society is becoming more Fear Driven and chaos could ensue over the refusing to comply with “the norms” of the outside world.
Many of us will wish we were Amish or Old Order Mennonite as things unravel in our country.
Amish and herd immunity
Robin: The Amish or Mennonites are the last people I’d wish I was a part of at such a time! Herd immunity to COVID doesn’t happen within a group just because the majority of the people have caught it. Especially with the variants popping up. Herd immunity happens when the majority of the people get vaccinated.
Joining the Mormons would be a far better idea. They believe in being prepared. Society is “becoming more Fear Driven”? “Chaos could ensue”? Fear is what drives people to follow safety guidelines in any circumstance. People who reject safety guidelines cause chaos, not those who follow them. If people had been following safety guidelines much sooner and in greater numbers, the world be be in a far better way. You are free to not take the vaccine. You are also free to refuse a hospital bed and ventilator, and pass them on, should you or someone in your family get the virus and need hospital care.
By the way, did your parents get you vaccinated against Polio? Small pox?
change of definitions
Janice, you are incorrect about herd immunity. The new updated definition is what you quoted. Until this year herd immunity is when the majority of people have been exposed to a virus and survived. For some reason, those pushing the vaccine have changed what herd immunity is so they can get more people vaccinated. I worked in the industry over 25 years and I understand what the words mean so I know what the standard definitions have been over time.
Amish and herd immunity
Rachel: If you worked in the field, you would know that science is ever- evolving. What was fact yesterday, may not be so tomorrow. I wonder, were you vaccinated as a child? Was receiving those vaccines a mistake on your parents’ part? Are you saying that polio, small pox, typhoid, yellow fever, mumps, measles, etc. should have been allowed to spread so that herd immunity could be achieved? Please elaborate.
Herd Immunity???
First of all, it is a MANDATE to wear a mask because it is unconstitutional to make it an actual law. 2nd of all, it IS completely based on fear. We are to trust in the Lord for our health and strength. Science has become God for the masses. You are free to experience fear of sickness or disease all you want, but the reality is, if the Lord calls you home then it is your time. If He says it is not your time then it is not your time. When the most of the Amish (and others with strong faith and most of the agricultural community also) wear a mask, it is simply to appease you and the rest of the people who live in fear. Wear a mask, get a vaccine, jump through all the hoops that you would like to until you finally feel like you are safe, BUT… it is absolutely evil to try and subject other people to your beliefs. I don’t need shots or masks to know that the Lord will protect me. If you need them, that’s ok. In my community nobody wears a mask, a few people have gotten sick, but nothing unusual to any other year. Everyone recovered with a few days. Literally nobody has done anything different. We work as we always have and don’t social distance. We’ve been this way since day one. Our farms are fine, our churches are fine. Stop believing these doctors with a god complex and media who sows only fear and division. The Bible says that fear is of the Devil. That is his tool. The Lord says to fear Him only, not man or anything else. My help comes from the Lord. Where does yours come from? Fauci? If that’s what you choose, that’s ok. Let the rest of us choose what we choose. We’ll see what works out best in the end.
2 Chronicles 16:12 And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians.
13 And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.
Amish and herd immunity
Mr. Singleton: You sound very angry! You must believe in what works for you. As for myself, I will believe that God has given us science to help us. Dr. Fauci became a researcher because that was his calling from God. Good Doctors, nurses, surgeons, and researchers, are blessed and led by the hands of God. Every time a cure is found for a contagious disease, is that not God’s hand working through doctors and researchers to make it happen? As for Asa dying because he went to a doctor instead of God, was it because doctors in those days did not have the knowledge or expertise to treat gout? They most likely did not know what caused it. Asa continued to live as he always did: overeating and drinking too much wine, and going to war. War is stressful. Bad food, too much alcohol and war are terrible for one’s health. Especially at a time when doctors really did not have the tools or knowledge of today. This belief that God takes you when He chooses is fine, but, might God not also want you to listen to the doctors he has blessed with the intelligence and capabilities to become experts and thereby, help you? By the way, since you are so proud of not needing a doctor or the vaccine, does that mean that you not use doctors or medicine at all? Were you vaccinated as a child? Did you have your children vaccinated? I wonder?
I’m sorry about the late response, Mrs. Reamer, I just saw that you responded. No, I’m not angry at all. I just simply see it as a very sad day when it is a smaller problem for people to abort children than it is to have the faith that God will carry them through a sickness or to believe that all things work together for the good of them that love the Lord and are the called according to His purpose. Maybe your faith requires the vaccine, but it’s ok if it doesn’t, also. In the scriptures the Lord has a centurion come to Him to ask Him to heal the centurion’s servant. Normally the Lord would go there in person to heal someone; sometimes even involving things like placing mud on a man’s eyes to heal him. In this instance, the Lord said that He would come, but the centurion, not feeling worthy of the Lord entering his home, told the Lord that if He would just say the word, he knew that his servant would be healed. The Lord commended him and stated that He had not seen such great faith… It’s ok for some people to just trust the Lord to ‘say the word’ in their time of need.
Amish and herd immunity
Mr. Singleton: I do not know of any woman who thinks that abortion is far easier to deal with than having faith in God. As for one’s faith in God to keep one safe and heal/cure one of a disease, if yours is so deep, may I presume that you do not use any medication when you are ill because of cancer, a heart attack or stroke. I know several people who claimed to have such faith in God that they were not worried about contracting COVID. Five of those people contracted COVID. One died from it, two recovered, and another almost died. I know that the ones whose lives were in danger, rushed to a hospital seeking treatment. What happened to that faith that God would take care of them? When does God mandate medical treatment? When does God mandate that no treatment? Did evangelicals pray to God about wearing a mask and getting vaccinated, and He told them not to? How many pastors told their congregations that COVID was a hoax by the Democrats/Satan to control them, to not worry about it, to continue meeting in close quarters, to not wear a mask or get vaccinated, and then contracted COVID and died? At least 12. Never mind the parishioners who listened and then contracted COVID, some of whom also died.
When does God tell us to follow safety guidelines, and when does Satan? What do you tell a loved one who contracts COVID and is needlessly dying from it because he/she chose to ignore safety protocols? What if the decision to not follow safety protocols was actually YOUR wish and not God’s? A friend of a friend just died last week from COVID. She and her husband both contracted it. They were both anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers. She was on a respirator for two weeks. What about all those vaccines we received as children? Were those vaccines God’s wish or a liberal hoax to control the evangelicals of the time? What if it is God’s wish that we get vaccinated to save each other and you’re ignoring that wish? Is it faith or is it willful ignorance? Is it faith or is it politics? I’d really like to know.
Actually, I have been near death quite a few times (both during and after my time in the Marine Corps) and I actually have many times denied medical treatment and medicines in general. It has been ten years since I’ve had so much as an Aspirin. I do not speak as a hypocrite. I am not saying that I would never let them sew me shut. I have been sewn shut by them before, however, I woke up there and did not actually choose to go. When I did wake up, I was getting ready to have my face stitched back together from getting it stomped into the pavement by thugs and I denied novacaine and all following medicine that they claimed I needed. I even denied the following surgeries. When I was medically retired from the Marine Corps for injuries before being jumped, I stopped all meds that they forced me to take. When I was stung by a couple hundred ground hornets and swelled up not being able to breath or see straight and my skin splitting from the swelling, against the wishes of my wife and family to go to the hospital I begged the Lord to either fix me or take me home now. He put me to sleep and I woke up fine. I have many more examples, but this is not supposed to be a competition. There is a time and a place for doctors (who know their true intended role) and I do believe that sometimes you may need some help, but I have learned from far more experiences than you would probably find believable that this life and this body is not what we are taught to believe it is. Do not try to set your own parameters on another individual’s faith. That’s like putting parameters on “I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me”. That’s like telling someone that they don’t believe in God as much as they think they do. I guess that according to you, faith only USED to make people whole and move mountains. Modern science has also convinced us that the kingdom of heaven is no longer at hand. They convince us that if there really were a physical ascended Jesus that He must be billions of trillions if light-years past endless space… His throne must be over there… Right?! People are so deceived. Jesus is real, He ascended into the real Heavens… In His real physical form… Where He still is in His real physical form to this day. And we have His real Spirit here to guide us into all truth. And He still is the healer. Don’t try to tell me that my Lord can’t heal me without assistance. It was a doctor who once raged out at me because I wouldn’t let him vaccinate my daughter when she was born. He kept claiming that he was a Christian also. Finally he snapped at me and said, “God is not perfect and He created doctors to fix His mistakes”. I do not believe that all doctors believe this way, but there are plenty that do. Some are good, some are bad, but most are caught in an evil, God-replacing system. My wife lost her son in court years ago, because she gave Biblical reason for why she does not give him medications. His father is a nurse and wanted him on the full spectrum of garbage. She brought a Bible to court. The judge claimed God and the Bible is outdated. We have science.
Science has replaced God. Actually, the Bible calls it “science falsely so called”. The Lord speaks about these times. Don’t assume that we would get on here and run our mouths without living it first. I live in an Amish community and can tell you that belief of that nature is not as rare as one might think.
Rachel, I agree with your statements.
Sorry Janice, but herd immunity is the way to go, I believe no mask also. mask limit your 02, and your own antibodies build the immunity to most all diseases. I have worked with covid for one year. all of our nurses are fine. breathing back in your own carbon, is medically destructive. It is real but no a killer as we where 1st told. HIV killed more people, then covid thought of, but we never shut down. wash ur hands, get lots of sun shine eat healthy and you will be fine. the fear of dieing will rob you of living.
Amish and herd immunity
jaco: You have worked “with COVID for one year”; your “nurses are fine”. I’d like to know which clinic or hospital you work in that does not follow safety guidelines? Are you a doctor or an epidemiologist? If you are the former, what kind of doctor are you? If you are the latter, which research lab do you work for? By the way, no self-respecting doctor or scientist would ever compare HIV/AIDS to COVID-19! Just because both are viruses does not mean they are related or comparable. Their modes of transmission are not the same. One is sexually transmitted, the other is transmitted by droplets in the air. You can’t breathe in HIV/AIDS, but, you can breathe in COVID-19. You can stop having sex, but you can’t stop breathing. I have difficulty believing you are anything other than another willfully ignorant, anti-masker.
Here's one for you Janice.
Sorry, I forgot to add the link(;
JANICE REAMER; Read this through and see what you think. I would like an honest opinion if possible. Thanks for your time.
https://www.citizensjournal.us/18-reasons-i-wont-be-getting-a-covid-vaccine/
Amish and herd immunity
Tom,
I appreciate your referring me to articles published by Trumplicans, for Trumplicans. Here is my honest opinion: Besides the obvious anti-vaxxing slant of the article, I did not learn anything. There is not one single drug on the market that does not have risks associated with it. From Aspirin to opioids, chemo, etc. all drugs cause side effects in some people. If I take Benadryl, I get terrible heart palpitations. If I take Zyrtec, I have terrible hangovers. Sometimes, i simply have to take them. If I take Ibuprofin, I get acid reflux after the second dose, even though I always drink two glasses of water right after ingesting the pills. It’s how my body chemistry reacts at my age. When I received my first COVID vaccine, Pfizer, I was fine. When I received the second dose, I was very tired the next day. I’d rather have those after effects than COVID. I know how my son suffered during his bout with COVID. He was very ill for three long weeks. He was one of the lucky ones! He decided to get his COVID vaccine as soon as he was eligible. If a drug does more good than bad for a majority of the people, it needs to be on the market. Have Big Pharma companies been sued over the years for corrupt practices? Certainly. Are we to stop treating ourselves medically because Big Pharma, besides developing drugs to help people, also indulges in corrupt practices to make more profits? No. Have you ever met anyone who doesn’t look for every loop hole in his/her tax filings, every year? Don’t you? Is it fair that these companies can cheat, make huge profits and get away with it? No, it is not. But, since Big Pharma has most politicians in their pockets, and SCOTUS has always had a majority of corrupt judges, after all, they did vote to allow corporations to vote, thanks to a huge push by the right-winged organization, Citizens United, this will continue. If you don’t believe the COVID is serious and don’t trust the vaccine, you might consider reading articles on both, written by authors who are well-informed and politically neutral when it comes to informing the public. Or not. It is important to use critical thinking skills when sorting through all the garbage and misinformation spewed by the right wing media and Qanon.
Here's one for you Janice.
JANICE REAMER; Read this through and see what you think. I would like an honest opinion if possible. Thanks for your time.
To control people you change the meaning of words
Seriously. Herd immunity. The current definition involves everyone getting vaccinated. When in the history of Earth have herds of animals become immune to a virus by getting vaccinated? Herd immunity is exactly what it implies. Herds getting the virus or disease, some get sick, some die, and the herd as a whole becomes immune to it. These new age mask worshipers have changed the meaning of everything to suit their agenda. I live in GA and go out every day into the community. I have work a mask maybe less than a dozen times. I do my hobbies, I go out shopping, I go out to dinner, I enjoy time with friends and family. I don’t cover myself in disinfectant and I don’t wear a mask unless I absolutely have no choice. And guess what? I’m still alive and enjoying my life. Just because you live in fear doesn’t give you the right to force your religious mask beliefs on others.
I will always refuse vaccination. No I am not vaccinated and nor did I vaccinate my children. Nor did my daughter vaccinate my grandchildren. My grandchildren did not receive Covid jags either. We all came through the so called pandemic unaffected – ages from 10 into 70s.
We were not free to not take the vaccine. There were many pressures we had to stand up against to avoid it.
reply to Robin Kinkaid
Agree with you Robin!! All the way. Glad you’re here!
Yes. These Amish may have reached herd immunity. Using nature and what is natural, they may have reached herd immunity faster than the non-Amish.
They were exposed to covid. And the community survived.
The vaccine does not eliminate covid. The vaccine effectiveness may not last long. Experts are unsure how long the vaccine will work/last. You can still get covid after the vaccine. might be rare. But can still happen.
In time, If covid mutates, similar to the flu, vaccine or no vaccine, we may have to go thru this again. And often.
Amish and herd immunity.
J.O.B.: The vaccine does not yet eradicate COVID because it mutates. The flu continues in spite of the vaccine, because a different mutation develops every fall. I have never had a flu shot, but, I have had the COVID vaccine. I know I might still catch COVID, but, it won’t be as bad, so I’m told. I’m not sure that any Amish community has achieved herd immunity, as it has infected some who have not had the vaccine, more than once. This COVID virus is a mystery, as are most man-made viruses. We may never learn everything about it. I do not shop in stores that do not enforce safety guidelines. Perhaps they don’t care about my safety, but, that’s okay…I care, so I follow safety guidelines and spread the word to anyone I know who cares about being safe.
Janice,
I agree with all your statements.
All these COVID non-believers have to do is walk into a hospital where they are dying [from the virus] and they’d line up for the vaccine. I’m a witness to COVID death in the hospital setting – very unsettling indeed.
As per the Amish, to my surprise some here respect this virus and have been vaccinated. Most, however, don’t believe in any vaccinations.
Happy Easter!
Maureen
Central NY
North the Country NY
Amish and herd immunity
Maureen,
Thank you!
It’s clear that arguing with willful ignorance is a waste of energy.
The Shot!
Janice
I will not have you stand alone, particularly when you happen to be well informed and correct.
I work with The Amish in upstate Central New York and the North Country [along with Mennonite and Christian farmers]. There have been COVID-19 cases here since late March 2020; some requiring weeks of hospitalization. Masks are not worn among The Amish, however, they wear them in public places as mandated.
As of Easter Sunday, our conservative Amish are not getting the COVID vaccine – and here it’s been an ongoing battle about other vaccines [and shared public school buses]. The Mennonites are split – some see the COVID vaccine as being the answer, others are on the fence. The English farmers are opting for the vaccine, and many have already been fully vaccinated.
My Mom lives alone and is 82 years old; needed hospitalization for a non-COVID emergency issue this past December. The hospital was in chaos, the likes I have never seen. The hospital staff couldn’t keep up – they were running to the lined up ambulance drivers [who waited for hours outside the hospital], ascertaining what patient had COVID, and shouting directions. When we were finally admitted, the hospital was in such turmoil – total madness reigned, as these EMTS, doctors, and nurses [clad in hazmat suits] risked their lives all night long. My Mom and I were placed in a closet sized room for six hours – the sounds of people dying – well Janice I’ve never heard the sounds of a person dying before.
So I made a decision. It’s April and the farming season is underway. For my protection and the protection of all around me, I will not be returning to work this 2021 season. I’m now eligible and have made an appointment for my COVID-19 vaccine. You see Janice I have a responsibility to myself, my family, my country, and the world.
And if these cavalier people on this thread who are derisive to you, should come down with a severe case of COVID-19 and need medical care, this is a reminder that their selfishness put all around them in peril – not to mention they will be calling for their Mothers through gasping breaths – their sounds of death will indeed be heard loud and clear.
And you’re nicer than I am. They have an obligation that is clearly being circumvented.
self·ish | ˈselfiSH |
adjective
(of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one’s own personal profit or pleasure.
Amish and herd immunity
Maureen,
Thank you for your supportive comment.
I am sorry you and your mother had to go through such a terrible time at the hospital. I can imagine how traumatic that must have been for both of you. All those people who died alone, without any loved ones around, and who were put into freezer trucks because there was no room at the morgue…they couldn’t even rest in peace with dignity! This, because people refuse to believe the seriousness of COVID.
I remember how difficult it was to just get a doctor’s appointment last year! One had to go to the ER each time and wait several hours before being seen. My own nurse practitioner, to this day, avoids seeing patients. When she does see them, visits are brief and cursory. To find another NP or doctor is not easy around here. It’s very rural. From my house, it’s easily an hour or longer, to a hospital.
People who speak out against the virus, masks and the vaccine, tend to be those who were either not at all impacted by the virus, or who, if they caught it, were lucky to recover. My son caught it and was very ill for three weeks. It took him several months to be able to smell or taste anything.
The sad thing about this virus is that it has been politicized by a certain segment of the population. They proudly proclaim their refusal to wear a mask or to get vaccinated. They consider their refusal to be a sign of patriotism. They don’t consider caring for their community to be patriotism. To them, caring for one’s community is akin to socialism. They don’t understand that living in a healthy community is the only way for them to remain healthy. I work at a non-profit thrift store. The Amish used to refuse to wear a mask. They were told that all customers were required to wear a mask. They balked at first, but most came around. We know that in their own businesses, they neither wear masks nor do they require their customers to wear a mask. We also know that they refuse to get vaccinated.
Some posters think that it is sufficient to condescendingly claim that they have had 50 years experience with doctors, scientists, epidemiologists, infectious diseases, catching COVID, etc. without offering any proof, to justify their position on COVID and the effectiveness of the vaccines. Clearly, that experience is not serving that poster well.
I believe in freedom of choice, and I believe in the Constitution. However, one’s constitutional right to choose to be a fool, ends where my constitutional right to choose to be safe, begins. My right to be safe outweighs the right of someone who chooses to be a danger to me. The community’s safety outweighs the dangerous intentions of the individual. Some people are so selfish and so willfully ignorant, they will not put the safety of their community first.
March 20th, 2021 I attended an Amish auction of personal property of an older man who was retiring. There were about 250 Amish folks and 75 English people in attendance. Perhaps 10 Englisher’s wearing masks and zero Amish. I chatted with several people and asked one Amish man if Covid had effected them. He replied, “Not much”. He said there was no huge increase in deaths among the eldery and it seemed that in the last year colds and flu were within the normal ranges. He also said they did not cancelled church services at any time during the last year.
This auction was in Reedsville, Pa.
Amish and herd immunity
Jerry: Is your point that we should just get over our fear of COVID and move on with our lives? When the Amish man said that his people weren’t affect too much by COVID, what did he mean? What was the percentage of people in his community affected by it? Who were the people affected by it? Just because this man said “Not much”, it doesn’t mean only two or three people were affected by it. Or, it might mean just that. I don’t know. Do you?
Amish and Herd Immunity
I live amoungst the Amish. I shop at all there stores. I don’t wear a mask and neither do they. I know of maybe about 4 of them getting covid. It did not run threw their community and church and weddings did not stop either. Before February 2020, it had ran through the communities (not only Amish).It had not been given a name.It started in our communities in August 2019. The school children, the teachers, the bus drivers all had it. They bring it home to their families, it would run through the families and would be over. Doctors prescribed nothing for the patients. Guess what, no deaths. Children in the communities have been going to school since August, no outbreaks. Since their were not large outbreaks in our community, the health department did not like it so they started going to elderly Amish homes, entering and forcing the test on them and saying you have covid. That soon stopped when others were made aware of what they were doing.
Amish and herd immunity
Sharon: You seem to consider it a badge of honor to not wear a mask. You claim that the health department was forcing testing upon the people in your community. Which state and community would that be? You don’t mention either. No health department is going to force testing upon a community if there is no sign of disease in it, and it most certainly is not going to force a community to be tested BECAUSE there’s no sign of disease! It’s expensive and a waste of time, and ludicrous! The Amish were offered testing, that is for certain, but, they were never forced to be tested. They’ve never been forced to follow medical testing of any kind at any time. They don’t even get vaccinated in normal times! There was a measles outbreak in an Ohio Amish community, in 2014, and they were offered the measles vaccine, but, they were not forced to take it. The Amish in that community agreed to be vaccinated because they understood that if they didn’t, the measles would spread to many more in their community, and would most likely result in an outbreak in the English communities. If you have proof of the Amish having been forced to be tested for COVID in your community, please provide it. I’m willing to be corrected.
Janice
Congratulations Janice, you are a perfect role model for what are corrupted, twisted government wants us to be.
Amish herd immunity
Rebekkah: Why am I the “perfect role model for what OUR corrupted, twisted government wants us to be”? Because YOU believe that COVID is fake, and I don’t? Because you refuse to follow mandated safety guidelines, but I don’t? Perhaps it is YOU who are the perfect role model for that corrupted, twisted government that led us to live a hellish existence from 2016 to 2020?
The vaccine may not prevent you from getting Covid. The experts admitted as much. The makers of the vaccines stated that maybe the symptoms of Covid will not be as severe if you get the vaccine. That’s not herd immunity since people can still get it.
And for the record, herd immunity can be achieved by both, vaccines and natural infection.
Also, the company that makes one of the vaccines admitted that the vaccine will not last a long time. They admitted it should last at least 6 months. That’s not long enough.
This means that if you get the vaccine today, next winter/flu season, you may have to get another shot again since the vaccine may wear off and expose you to the full force of Covid.
And before people blindly defend vaccines, your job in life is to value wisdom. And wisdom can come thru experience. And experience should have reminded you about a drug that experts said was safe but turned out to be deadly. The drug is called “Thalidomide” and was given to pregnant women. Thousands and thousands suffered and died from this drug that the experts said was safe. How quickly people forget.
Simply search “Thalidomide and pregnant women.” A healthy dose of skepticism is, well, healthy. Vaccines can do great things. But blindly supporting them is wrong. They also have done harm. We continue to learn from past mistakes so not to repeat them. That’s why vaccines have become safer.
But we should not be haughty in our support of vaccines. That’s not anti-vaccine talk. It’s called dealing with reality and avoiding hubris.
Amish and herd immunity
J.O.B.: I am not blindly supporting the vaccine. As for Thalidomide, it was not a vaccine. It was a sleeping aid which was supposed to help pregnant women with nausea. It was never approved for sale in the USA, only in Europe. The official FDA count released in the 1960s was seventeen thalidomide babies born in the United States. Nine of them were born to mothers who took samples made by American drug companies. Eight other mothers said they obtained the drug in other countries. Those women acquired samples! The drug was never sold over here. The drug was not approved for sale in the United States in the 1960s, but as many as 20,000 Americans were given thalidomide in the 1950s and 1960s as part of two clinical trials operated by the American drug makers Richardson-Merrell and Smith, Kline & French. In other words, the over-the-counter anti-nausea sleep aid, was never approved for sale here. Skepticism is indeed healthy, which is why it took me months to agree to have the vaccine. As for the COVID-19 vaccine, researchers weren’t starting from scratch when they learned about SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. SARS-CoV-2 is a member of the coronavirus family. According to the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, there are hundreds of coronaviruses — including four that can cause the common cold, as well as the coronaviruses that sparked the SARS, or severe acute respiratory syndrome, epidemic in 2002 and the emergence of MERS, or Middle East respiratory syndrome, in 2012. Researchers were able to produce a COVID-19 vaccine quickly because a lot of laboratories worked together on it. Dr. Eric J. Yager, an associate professor of microbiology at Albany College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences in Albany, NY, said that scientists have been studying coronaviruses for over 50 years. This means scientists have existing data on the structure, genome, and life cycle of this type of virus. We should not be haughty in our lack of support of vaccines. It’s called dealing with reality and avoiding hubris. Words you should take to heart, J.O.B.
Its been 6 weeks since they last saw a person with Covid symptoms? Interesting.
No vaccine. Covid appears to have run thoroughly thru the Amish community. Just let it run its natural course and they appear to be better for it. Great for them.
Once again, Thalidomide was administered in Europe where thousands were given the drug. The birth defects were significant and horrofic.
Also, I never said it was a vaccine.
Nor was my posts about you.
Whew! Even on a Amish website some people go down the rabbit hole and rant with rudeness.
Remember,
We should not be haughty in our support of vaccines. It’s called dealing with reality and avoiding hubris. Words you should take to heart, Janice Reamer.
Amish and herd immunity
Remember,
One should not be haughty in one’s ignorance of the vaccine or the consequences of the COVID-19 virus. I have seen those consequences. The problem with anti-vaxxers is that they speak out against the vaccine based on herd ignorance, not science. An Amish community now has herd immunity because it hasn’t seen a case in six weeks? Perhaps. All the same, I have chosen to be fully vaccinated, as have all my relatives and friends. It is safer to go down a rabbit hole than be surrounded by dangerous ignorance. That is how we face reality and avoid the hubris of others. I shall now go down my rabbit hole. Have a wonderful and blessed day!
Your blessed day comment obviously is fake. We don’t need that here.
I’m sorry you’re angry and your feelings are hurt. There is no need for your negative posts here. Or anywhere.
Also, please don’t make things up.
In fact, I have received vaccines and now, for the 3rd time, say they can be terrific. I also know that the medical/drug industry has done horrific things. Hence, for the 3rd time, my healthy skepticism comment.
I had covid. I still will not get the vaccine. My choice is based over 50 years of family experience in the fields of medical/ drug/infectious diseases/military/epidemiologists/ and so on.
In other words, a tremendous amount of experts and experience helped me say no.
Amish and herd immunity
J.O.B.: I haven’t made anything up. I am neither hurt nor angered. I have expressed my opinions and have presented facts to back them up. You do not have to agree with them. That’s what open discourse is about.
By the way, open discourse does not include the presumption that you may tell me what is or isn’t needed on this site. Superciliousness is not necessary!
I still wish you a blessed day.