95 responses to Amish: A Secret Life on BBC
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    Tom
    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 20th, 2012 at 06:04)

    I just saw this Friday…very interesting.

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    Anne Arthur
    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 20th, 2012 at 06:47)

    We watched this film it was very interesting, I did wonder how the family go on after the programme was screened? I guess that the community will know about it now.

    I have to commend their bravery allowing the camears to follow them. the husband seemed more open than his wife, I felt she might have been afraid of the concequences from the community.

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    Alison
    Comment on Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 20th, 2012 at 07:07)

    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC

    I watched this programme a while back and it was interesting. However, whenever an Amish family is filmed it is obvious that they aren’t truly Amish. Dave and Miriam hadn’t at the time been shunned by their church but they were certainly asking for it. Being Amish is about following the rules and since they weren’t, in their hearts they had already abandoned the Amish church.

    I felt very sad for Miriam as she felt she had to follow her husband’s wish to leave. I have read that it is possible for a wife to remain Amish whilst her spouse leaves but Miriam came across as totally dominated. Very sad.

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      deb from long island
      Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 20th, 2012 at 10:03)

      I am not sure that what we see in Miriam is purely submission to her husband. My family has recently left a fellowship that we had attended for years and I cried for two years before and months later. Also she seemed very joyous to me and was free to express herself with her family and her friends. I have found that my relationship with Jesus is the best thing that has ever happened to me, but it has cost me many relationships along the way.
      deb <

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      Marek
      Comment on domination (March 7th, 2013 at 00:15)

      domination

      People in the “world” (out of real christian life) can not understand what is obedience to Gods rules, and how much peace it gives to life.
      For example for a wife.
      But not only.
      For everybody.
      You think about her “dominated”, but really she choosed it. She is convinced that this road is ok, and I agree with it.
      Obedience gives peace.
      And she did proper decision.

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      Caitlin Renee
      Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (April 27th, 2014 at 22:18)

      Ummmm, are you Amish? Maybe you are. But if you’re not, why are you judging the Amish-worthiness of these people? Who are you are I to decide whether or not they are truly Amish or Amish enough?

      Not all religion is about rules. Because they choose to be filmed doesn’t seem to make them less heartfelt faithful. It seemed they went about their lives with much self-examination, intelligence, strength, inquisitiveness, and courage.

      As for Miriam being dominated, who was holding the women’s tea when non-old-order Amish ladies brought their children to break bread and share time at her table? She was. That was her choice as the woman of her home.

      It’s simplistic, reductionist, and insulting to paint her as dominated, or the decide for them how Amish they are. This is a family full of courage, self-examination, and love.

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      Ada/KJV Conservative
      Comment on I Don't Think So... (May 9th, 2014 at 08:57)

      I Don't Think So...

      Allison:

      The Bible tells women to be submissive to their husbands (or to their fathers/brothers, if not married). It is the natural way. Please read my article on marriage: http://plainpathwaytohim.wordpress.com/2014/05/09/the-biblical-role-of-women/
      I’m not saying that it is always easy to follow a man’s whim (trust me, I am very, very stubborn and willful- so I know), but it is my (our?) duty as a Christian woman.

      I don’t know if Miriam wanted to leave their church or not, but I’ve listened to the video and it sounds like she knows that her faith will not be tolerated by her church. She also said that her role in the marriage was “perfect.”

      Whether or not you are a Christian, I would be glad if you visited my blogs:

      plainpathwaytohim.wordpress.com
      plainpathwaytohim.tumblr.com

      In Christ,

      Ada

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    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 20th, 2012 at 07:29)

    Thank you for the link to the film. I enjoyed it and trust the family will find their place outside the Amish church as I think allowing and participating in it will surely bring retribution and shunning.

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    Randy A
    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life (August 20th, 2012 at 08:26)

    Amish: A Secret Life

    I just finished watching this. Very interesting. It seemed to be rather straightforward of an Amish couples life. The BBC is noted for this. It’s a pleasant change from the (generally but not always)usual rubbish on US TV about the Amish.

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    Lattice
    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 20th, 2012 at 08:47)

    Erik, thanks so much for providing this link. I’m looking forward to watching it tonight.

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    Rich Stevick
    Comment on Amish life, Plain but not so simple (August 20th, 2012 at 08:54)

    Amish life, Plain but not so simple

    A lovely portrayal of Amish family life, at its best. My computer threw me out before the end, but the outcome was pretty obvious from David’s first comments about their willingness to allow filming: “We prayed about it and have peace about it or we wouldn’t be doing it.” A faithful Amish couple would rarely, if ever, have to pray about whether or not they should violate their Ordnung. This is a lovely family, but it is almost a given that their journey will lead them to leave the Amish fold. (And even though the BBC would understand this, I doubt that anybody lost a wink of sleep or shed a tear worrying about the stresses and changes their film likely engendered for this couple and their extended family. Actually, at one level David and Miriam may have felt that ecommunication for their witness to the BBC and its viewers was worth it and perhaps their easiest way out.) This is a wonderful film for helping us outsiders understand the difficulties inherent for those Amish who feel drawn to a more expressive, evangelistic expression of faith.

    Rich Stevick P.S. The typical Amish explanation for their leaving is that underneath it all is David and Miriam’s desire for a car and a less restrictive lifestyle.

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      Don Curtis
      Comment on My son, Mark's opinion (August 20th, 2012 at 11:53)

      My son, Mark's opinion

      I asked my son Mark, who joined the Amish, his opinion about what David and Miriam had done in allowing this filming of their life and of their subsequent leaving of the Amish. Mark said he was not surprised that they had left the Amish. David was already evidencing the “I” mentality instead of the “We” of the church when he said he prayed for direction. In this case, he didn’t need to seek the Lord’s direction. He already had that direction given in the ordnung of the church that he had agreed and promised to follow. Mark said that David and Miriam had chosen disobedience as God’s will and there is usually only one way that the disobedient can feel comfortable and that is by leaving the church. Mark said that he does not feel that disobedience is ever in God’s will. Anyway, those are the views of my Amish son, Mark

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        Lance
        Comment on Thanks Don and Mark (August 20th, 2012 at 13:02)

        Thanks Don and Mark

        As a person who spent a lot time with the Amish and still does, I would like to thank you and Mark for this viewpoint. Its not the violation of the rule, per se, its that it is disobedience to the vow to the church. The change from acceptance of the ordnung(‘we’) to rejection of it(‘I’) is what causes the separation. It is rarely possible to get that acceptance back.

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        deb from long island
        Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 20th, 2012 at 19:14)

        I do not think that following the Bible over Amish tradition is disobedience in God’s eyes. In man’s eyes maybe, but I know you will not find that in the Bible. God does take making a vow very seriously this is true, but vowing to follow man’s law over God’s law is not obedience to God and in some ways can even pull one away from God by putting one’s trust in man and his ways.
        deb <

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          Don Curtis
          Comment on Reply to Deb (August 21st, 2012 at 11:36)

          Reply to Deb

          I read your comment to my Amish son, Mark. He feels that the Amish Ordnung is based on the Bible. The rules that David and Miriam broke relate to “not making any graven image” and “God resisteth the proud but giveth grace to the humble.” Mark feels that David and Miriam were being disobedient in allowing this filming to be done in defiance of the church and the Bible. He does not judge them but feels that perhaps some pride lays at the root of their wanting to be filmed, heard, and known by the outside world. I don’t know what this word means really but Mark says that what they did was not “demutlichkeit” and that the Amish strive to be a “demutlich” people. I should have asked him what that means but I had a hard enough time just writing it down as he spelled it out for me. Anyway, that’s Mark’s opinion.

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            Lance
            Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 21st, 2012 at 11:51)

            Demut is being humble, so demutlichkeit is humility. A related quality would be Gelassenheit or approximately ‘yieldedness’. When you are following the church and Bible, you possess Demut, when you want your own way, its Hochmut, or pride. Demut and Gelassenheit are qualities to strived for and Hochmut is to be avoided.

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            deb from long island
            Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 21st, 2012 at 13:31)

            I totally respect your son Mark and the Amish for their way of life. I too yearn for a simpler life without the hustle and bustle of things and the world…that said, the graven image is not to be bowed down to as an idol and worshiped according to the Bible. When viewing the video, the things that were evident was their desire to share the love of Jesus with a dying world and a family who has been set free from certain rules that have kept them from doing so. Could they stay Amish?, in culture only for sure, but not as members of the church. Again, I would like to say that I respect Mark’s point of view, but can also see where this family is coming from. As for humility, maybe because I have been around the main stream church for so long where it is practically nonexsistant, it seemed to overflow from this couple. But this is an ongoing daily battle for every Christian to seek to be humble and not be puffed up because God opposes that. deb <

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          LWjr
          Comment on Ordnung (August 4th, 2014 at 08:20)

          Ordnung

          David and Miriam Lapp faced a dilemna, similar to the one the Apostles faced early. Here it is:

          Acts 4:18-20 KJV And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. (19) But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. (20) For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

          When MEN forbid you to testify, which was the real mission of David Lapp, he followed God not man-made-ordnung. Popes in Churches begin to believe that they are God, not Jesus Christ. The Spirit and True Believers know the difference.

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        Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 23rd, 2012 at 07:19)

        I applaude David and Miriam for their willingness to adhere to the Word of God where it differs from the Ordnung. If all Amish folks actually read their Bibles I think their would be very few of them, and the same goes for all organized religions. Why would God go to the trouble of giving us His Word and saying not to add to it or take away from it if He was pleased with man’s traditions, doctrines (Ordnungs) or policies?

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          Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 23rd, 2012 at 08:34)

          One of the biggest misconceptions about the Ordnung is that it is set of arbitrary rules made up on a whim somewhere along the line.
          The Ordnung could actually be called “Practical applications to Bible principles.”
          For example, no telephones in the house is an application of the principle of having quality family time, not interrupted by some salesman trying to pawn you something you dont need. After all, humanity got along just fine for 1000s of years without an instant connection in the house to billions of other people. Dress regulations are an attempt to practice non-adornment and modesty. Etc. and etc.
          Every family has rules. It may be only so many hours per week of television, be home by 10pm, no junk food snacks … So in that sense, every family has an Ordnung–practical applications based on a principle.
          The problem is that some of the “rules” have been separated from the principle, and too many dont know “why” they do what they do. So since the “rules” make no sense, they are followed legalistically. But originally they were based on some biblical principle, like not showing pride (black buggies, not orange and pink and other showy colors).

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            Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 23rd, 2012 at 09:15)

            One of the biggest misconceptions about the Ordnung is that it has anything to do with Christianity. Certainly, its a good set of rules, but once any Amish person reads the Word of God they can see that they have been believing in a set of rules that has no power to save them. Amish are told not to read their Bibles but to just leave that to the bishops xnd ministers. David and Miriam should not have been made to feel the need to hide their Biblically based baptism. The Amish church holds their set of rules above the Word of God, plain and simple. (no pun intended)

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              Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 23rd, 2012 at 09:46)

              Many Amish misunderstand the raison d’etre of the Ordnung. They see it like you seem to see it: a means to obtain grace, rather than an expression of grace.
              David and Miriam and all that group that is leaving the Amish still have an Ordnung. They still have practical applications to Biblical principles. They may not write it down and call it an “Ordnung,” but they still have one. It is looser in many cases than the Amish Ordnung (in some cases, more strict), but they still have “Ordnung.”
              I know Merle Weaver, who is intimately involved with this group (saw him on the video). I have met some of the others, and have attended a prayer meeting with them.
              My point in responding is that “Ordnung bashing” happens so often, yet the very person bashing “Ordnung” also has an (usually unwritten) Ordnung. It is mostly Evangelicals who misunderstand the idea behind Ordnung.
              On another note, not nearly all Amish forbid reading the Bible. I know many Amish who read the Bible and who would encourage others to do so, openly.

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                Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 23rd, 2012 at 10:02)

                You misunderstood the point. There is no bashing of the Ordnung here, just a realization that the Bible,the Word of God is the real authority.

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                  Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 23rd, 2012 at 10:15)

                  I think you make a good point.
                  My point: If the Ordnung is simply practical applications of biblical principles (which is what it is supposed to be), then Bible believers should have no fear of Ordnung (or, what we might call in English “church standards”). On the other hand, Ordnung users should have no fear of the Bible.
                  My opinion is that many of the Amish who fear the Bible simply do not understand their own Ordnung and have made it a mere tradition rather than a beautiful application of principles of the kingdom of God.
                  (It happens in other churches as well. :-))
                  Have a good day!

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                    Jessica G.
                    Comment on Standards/Ordnung (August 31st, 2012 at 01:25)

                    Standards/Ordnung

                    I attend a very conservative Mennonite church. It’s not Old Order, but the church standards forbid having things such as car insurance, radios, internet and musical instruments. I’ve had various conversations with the ministers and members of the church about the reasoning and significance behind these standards. One thing that’s emphasized again and again is that the standards aren’t arbitrary or made up by the ministers to control people. They’re practical applications of Biblical principles that are agreed on by the church as a whole. When someone becomes a member, they are agreeing to live by the standards the church sets out and trust the church’s counsel as an outworking of the Spirit. I have heard it explained that “Gelassenheit” (yieldedness or submission) in Anabaptist churches is based on the belief that the Holy Spirit, while indwelling each Christian individually, speaks most clearly through the voice of the assembled brotherhood. It’s a mindset that places more importance on the community rather than the individual, which can be hard for people from our individualist society to understand.

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                      Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 31st, 2012 at 08:50)

                      I thought I was done commenting on this thread. But you hit the nail square on the head with this phrase:
                      “I have heard it explained that “Gelassenheit” (yieldedness or submission) in Anabaptist churches is based on the belief that the Holy Spirit, while indwelling each Christian individually, speaks most clearly through the voice of the assembled brotherhood.”

                      Speaks most clearly through the voice of the assembled brotherhood should be underscored. That is the core of Ordnung/standards/practical applications.

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                      Comment on question for Jessica (December 31st, 2013 at 13:49)

                      question for Jessica

                      How can you be responding to an online thread and not be allowed to use the internet? Just asking.

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                  Valerie
                  Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 23rd, 2012 at 10:22)

                  If I may add a comment, that if Evangelicals misunderstood it, it’s probably to do with their understanding of the Holy Spirit’s roll to convict as opposed to an extra list of rules to abide by. There is value in them as guidelines but I believe that there are alot of Amish that believe by following Ordnung will be a means of entrance to Heaven.

                  Whereas as Evangelicals believe the Holy Spirit will be the guiding light through studying God’s word, and will convict, and ultimately we will answer for whether we listen to the Holy Spirit in our convictions or not-so that we are responsible to listen to Him-
                  My good friend fears his parents are trusting or as he puts it “banking” on the Amish system to get them to Heaven. This is where people on the outside get concerned, and though not always but frequently there is valid reasons-it seems.

                  I often wonder how God views the Ordnung-I cannot help but wonder.
                  Perhaps we fall short of understanding, I am not convinced in heart one way or the other yet.

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                    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 23rd, 2012 at 10:51)

                    @ VAlerie: “My good friend fears his parents are trusting or as he puts it “banking” on the Amish system to get them to Heaven. This is where people on the outside get concerned, and though not always but frequently there is valid reasons-it seems.”

                    Here is the difference, using the Amish “bowl haircut” as an example. If you ask an Amish man why he cuts his hair that way, you will get two (maybe more) different reasons.
                    1. The church says I should do it that way.
                    2. The Bible says for a man to have short hair, and not to adorn ourselves with fancy hairstyles. My haircut is a way to live by those principles.
                    Ok, #1 may just have a tradition, not really knowing why, other than that is the way grandpa cut his hair. Like, “If I follow the traditions, I will get to heaven.”
                    #2 has a Biblical response, knows the Biblical principle, and joyfully makes his application, let the world laugh if it wants. (I remember the first time my mother sat in a church meeting with some of those “bowl haircuts”–she said she could hardly pay attention to the meeting because they seemed so “strange.” We had been told, jokingly, that the Amish got haircuts by turning a bowl upside down on their head and cutting off any hair sticking out. :-) )
                    I hope this illustrates the difference between using Ordnung as a mere tradition or as a practical expression of following Jesus.

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                      Valerie
                      Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 23rd, 2012 at 11:08)

                      Thank you for the explanation, but then I would see that someone is falling short of making these connections clear. I remember one friend of mine that left was because the scripture used to deny use of car made no sense to him as reason. He then felt illogical connections to scriptures were being used in other places too. He ended up on similar path then as David & Miriam.

                      I would say then the responsibility lies on the shepherds of the flock (bishops/ministers) to explain these things-
                      It is the pat answers that Amish have been known to give, that in many times leads people to believe they’re deceived about salvation. That is very important. Because I do believe God is using them in these days we live in many ways.

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                Lance
                Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 23rd, 2012 at 10:24)

                The group of Amish I was with advised the people to read the Bible, daily if possible. When we worked, we men often talked about scripture or biblical things. It would appear from this and other British documentaries on the Amish that in Lancaster Co, there are Amish that are forbidding this. Those people under those rules should change churches.

                Mike, you pointed out the crux of the matter. The people, English and Amish alike, do not know how to connect the rules of the ordnung to scripture. In two books, there is some attempt to do that. First, “Amish Society” by John A Hostettler is a social study by a person raised Amish who left before joining, and, second, “1001 Q & A on The Christian Life” is a recent update by the Amish to “1000 Q & A…” written by a Mennonite in the early 1900s. Sadly, the Amish do not use either of these to teach their people.

                The Ordnung is a way to apply Biblical principles to a world which is much different from when the Bible was written. It is not a attempt to oppress people, but a way to guide people along the straight and narrow way, as the Amish see that way. It may seem extra-biblical, but it is entirely an attempt at applying biblical principles.

                One point though, the Amish do not see it as legalism, that concept is lost on them. It is hard for them to accept correction from people that are not a peculiar people, living a distinctive lifestyle. Most people who use the legalism argument are too close to the world, too indistinguishable for the Amish to trust.

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                  Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 23rd, 2012 at 10:58)

                  If the problem is with not knowing how to connect the rules with the Scriptures then it is mainly with the leaders of the Amish church as they don’t seem to understand that water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is in the Bible. Truth is it’s not in their “box” so it’s not allowed. Again, the Word of God is not their absolute.

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                    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 23rd, 2012 at 11:14)

                    The issue is not baptism, but re-baptism. They had been baptized with water upon joining the Amish church. Now they were getting baptized a second time (there is only one baptism according to the Bible …).
                    The issue is whether they had a true faith when they got baptized into the Amish church. I would probably agree with them getting rebaptized if they truly felt they only did it ritually the first time around, without faith. In this I differ from most Old Order Amish, who would say that rebaptism would not be necessary, and in fact wrong, since they were adults (having done so willfully, by their own choice, and thus had to have some understanding of the step they were taking).

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                      Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 23rd, 2012 at 12:29)

                      The real issue for David and Miriam is debunking the lies and worshipping God according to the Bible.

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                    Debbie W
                    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 31st, 2012 at 12:51)

                    Actually, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is not in the Bible. Jesus said,”Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”
                    So, when David spoke of their “rebaptism” in the name of Jesus as being valid, while their original baptism was invalid, I felt great sadness because a feeling has nothing to do with validity. It’s the formula that makes it valid. And that formula came straight from Jesus himself.

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                      Griselda Flores
                      Comment on I got baptized in Jesus name, Why? (May 11th, 2013 at 09:44)

                      I got baptized in Jesus name, Why?

                      When I read your comment, I felt great sadness. Jesus’ name baptism is in fact in the bible.

                      Read Acts 2:38.

                      Jesus commanded his disciples to “teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” (Matthew 28:19). He did not command them to use these words as a formula, but He commanded them to baptize in “the name.” The word name is used here in the singular, and it is the focal point of the baptism command. The titles Father, Son, and holy Ghost describe God’s relationships to humanity and are not the supreme, saving name described here, which is Jesus. “Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved” (Acts 4:12).

                      Jesus is the name in which the roles of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are revealed. The angel of the Lord instructed Joseph, “She shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for He shall save his people from their sins” (Matthew 1:21). Jesus said, “I am come in my Father’s name, ” and, “The Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, . . . the Father will send in my name” (John 5:43; 14:26). Thus, by baptizing in the name of Jesus, we honor the Godhead. “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily” (Colossians 2:9).

                      Luke 24:45-47 records that just before His ascension, Jesus opened the disciples’ understanding. It was necessary that their understanding be opened, and many today need this same operation in order to understand the Scriptures. Then Jesus said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day.” The disciples had their understanding opened so that they could grasp the vast importance of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Verse 47 describes the commission that Jesus then gave: “And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations [Jews and Gentiles], beginning at Jerusalem.”

                      Peter was one of that number to whom Jesus has spoken and whose understanding has been opened. After having listened to these instructions, a few days later he was inspired by the Holy Ghost to preach on the Day of Pentecost. The hearts of the hearers were pierced and, feeling condemned, they cried out to Peter and the other apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” (Acts 2:37). Peter did not hesitate but boldly answered, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost” (Acts 2:38). Then they that gladly received his word were baptized, and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls” (Acts 2:41).

                      Some say that Peter told them to be baptized in Jesus’ name because they were Jews and this baptism was to make them acknowledge Jesus Christ. But let us go with Peter to the house of Cornelius several years later. Cornelius and his household were Gentiles, yet there again Peter “commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord” (Acts 10:48). If Peter was wrong on the Day of Pentecost, he surely had ample time to be corrected before he went to the house of Cornelius.

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                      Myra E
                      Comment on Jesus Name Baptism (October 6th, 2013 at 18:57)

                      Jesus Name Baptism

                      There are many of us who believe in Jesus Name baptism, because of Acts 2:38 in the Bible. Some believe that the God of the Old Testament and Jesus are one and the same. Read Isa. 9:6. Whether some disagree or not, should matter little. If they are doing it wrong, that is between God and them. Nobody will lose their salvation, because somebody else got baptized in the Oneness formula or in the Trinitarian formula. The way one decides to get baptized then, is a personal decision and really nobody else’s concern.

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                      Kostas
                      Comment on Revelation (October 11th, 2013 at 10:13)

                      Revelation

                      To: Myra E
                      you said:
                      “If they are doing it wrong, that is between God and them”

                      You got that right, read the Bible through with an open mind, see if God means what He says about obedience.
                      Trinity & trinitarian formula is both man made false damnable heresies.
                      Mark David’s Lapp words from 57:32-49.

                      “the reason we took part of the film was because of the last Commandments that Jesus gave to His disciples before He left was , go ye & tell the world, go to the uttermost parts of the world teaching & preaching & baptizing in the NAME OF JESUS”

                      Stop listening to the ecumenicism lies, get you a KJV, read Acts 2:38, it says “remission” not “forgiveness” as most wrong translations have it. Then check out a good dictionary to find out that remission vs forgiveness is not the same at all.

                      Read below what Watchman Nee wrote in his book “The Prayer Ministry Of The Church” pages 58,59:

                      Do we realize that here is a name which is both authority and power which is put into the hand of the church to be used? The church ought to use the name of the Lord wisely. We sometimes say that the church does rule, but how can she rule without having the name? She holds the keys of the kingdom and is responsible to bring in the kingdom; yet without this name she is unable to open up the kingdom. The purpose of God is indeed to swallow death by life in the church and to bind Satan through the church; but except we have this name and know how to use it, we will not be able to fulfill our mission. We must consequently see that this name is given by the Lord Jesus to the church.
                      FIVE
                      It is for this very reason that as soon as one believes in the Lord Jesus and is saved he is commanded by God to be baptized. What does baptism do for us? We are baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus: “When they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus” (Acts 19.5). When I receive baptism I have a share in that name. Henceforth I am entrusted with that name. I can thereafter use the name of the Lord Jesus just as I use my own name. In view of this, baptism constitutes a tremendous thing. In spiritual reality, I am now a resurrected man. Because I stand on the ground of death and resurrection I may use the name of the Lord Jesus. From this day onward I am related to His name; He is Christ and I am a Christian. What are Christians? What is a church? None else than a group of people on earth who may use the name of the Lord Jesus and have God responsible for that name. However that name is used, God takes up the responsibility for whatever lies behind it. Is not this stupendous? Our relationship with the name of the Lord Jesus begins at baptism, for we are baptized into that name.
                      Here we see how imperative are the cross and resurrection. Only by standing on the ground of baptism can we use the name of the Lord Jesus; otherwise we are disqualified from using that name. If the cross is unable to get through in our life, the Lord Jesus will not be effective in us. We will not be competent to use that name; but even should we use it, God will not back us up and assume responsibility. You and I must stand on the ground of baptism, which means we believe in the reality of the cross—acknowledging that our old man was crucified with Christ and accepting also the principle of the cross in dealing with our natural life. Baptism is an assurance: that all we are needs to go through death daily; only what little is left after going through death has any spiritual usefulness. What is destroyed upon passing through death cannot stand before God. For God wants only what remains after passing through the cross—that which death cannot destroy.
                      The children of God need to see the reality of the cross. We need to see through revelation of God what we have obtained in Christ. There must be a day when the backbone of one’s natural life is broken by the Lord; then shall we be useful. This is not a doctrine; this is life. The day must come when God can see in your life and mine the marks of the cross. Many people do not seem to have the cross worked into their lives. Their words, their deeds, their feelings, and especially their attitudes before God bear no evidence of the cross.

                      It is necessary that one day God break that man by the cross. Whatever is left after passing through the cross is called resurrection. For resurrection is whatever cannot be buried nor annihilated after going through death. Resurrection is what we have left to us upon our being stricken by the Lord. Those who stand on such ground as this are alone able to use the authority of the Lord Jesus, even the name of the Lord Jesus. And as they use this name, God will back them up and bear the full responsibility.
                      Now this is truly the highest trust in the whole wide world. God can entrust the name of His Son to you and me and allow us to use it as we would our own name. This really is exceedingly great. The responsibility which God undertakes in this respect is beyond comprehension.
                      SIX
                      When we use the name of the Lord Jesus what will be the effect of this name? From the Scriptures we can see effects in at least three areas—towards men, towards the devil, and towards God.
                      Manward Effect
                      “Repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name unto all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem” (Luke 24.47). “To him bear all the prophets witness, that through his name every one that believeth on him shall receive remission of sins” (Acts 10.43). “And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God” (1 Cor. 6.11). Especially is this effect seen in the words of Acts 3: “And a certain man that was lame from his mother’s womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the door of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple; who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple, asked to receive an alms. And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him, with John, said, Look on us. And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something from them. But Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but what I have, that give I thee. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk” (vv.2-6).
                      Brothers and sisters, do you know what it is to speak to people in the name of Jesus of Nazareth? How will you fare in such a situation if you have not been standing on the ground of death and resurrection, if you are not on the ground of baptism? If you are not on this ground, then you will probably kneel down and pray something like this: “Lord, I do not know if this lame man should be healed. If he should be healed, make it so clear that we may have the boldness to ask; if he is not to be healed, then we will leave him alone.” But the experience of the apostles is not so. They do not consider the name of the Lord Jesus as remaining with the Lord Jesus; on the contrary, they take the name of Jesus of Nazareth as theirs, that which they possess and which they may use.
                      What is the church? The church is made up of people who keep the name of the Lord Jesus on earth. Those whom God has called out of the nations to be gathered together unto His name form the church. The church is to maintain on earth the name of the Lord Jesus; and consequently, she can use that name on people. Sometimes we are able to tell people: “Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22.16). While the Lord Jesus was on earth He once told a woman: “Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace” (Luke 8.48). On another occasion He said to a man with palsy: “Man, thy sins are forgiven thee” (Luke 5.20). If we stand on the ground of baptism and meanwhile we have vision and revelation, we will know that we are managers of the name of the Lord Jesus. As you and I preach the gospel to people and notice that they have received the gospel, we may say to them: “Brother, go in peace, for the Lord Jesus has forgiven you.”
                      Because the lame man was healed, the rulers, the elders and the scribes had the apostles stand in their midst, and inquired: “By what power, or in what name, have ye done this?” To which Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, replied: “Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even in him doth this man stand here before you whole. . . . And in none other is there salvation: for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, wherein we must be saved” (Acts 4.10,12). There is only this name, and none else, wherein we are saved.
                      http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/PrayerMinistryoftheChurch.pdf

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                      Marcos Galvez
                      Comment on Baptism in Jesus Name is the only method practiced in the Bible. (November 27th, 2013 at 23:06)

                      Baptism in Jesus Name is the only method practiced in the Bible.

                      I would like to comment on the statement below.

                      “Actually, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is not in the Bible. Jesus said,”Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

                      Dear friend, the great commission was recorded by Matthew, Mark & Luke. In order to rightly divide the word of truth it is extremely important to bring to light all scripture that harmonizes or has to do with the subject at hand. Below is a list of scriptures where the great commission was recorded:

                      The Great Commission
                      Matthew 28:19, Mark 16: 15-16, Luke 24:47

                      The Great Commission Obeyed By The Disciples That Heard It From Jesus
                      Acts 2:38, Acts 8:16, Acts 10:48, Acts 19:5, Rom 6:3, Gal 3:27

                      Now here you have it friend don’t be sad just get rebaptize the way the disciples obeyed the commandment of Jesus.

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                      Sorin Aldea
                      Comment on Corruption - Matthew 28:19 (December 1st, 2013 at 10:55)

                      Corruption - Matthew 28:19

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-XkAijKg44&list=PL6gT-_E8rnllqU2tgok01u6kCVVWhWk5L&index=18

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            Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 23rd, 2012 at 09:15)

            One of the biggest misconceptions about the Ordnung is that it has anything to do with Christianity. Certainly, its a good set of rules, but once any Amish person reads the Word of God they can see that they have been believing in a set of rules that has no power to save them. Amish are told not to read their Bibles but to just leave that to the bishops and ministers. David and Miriam should not have been made to feel the need to hide their Biblically based baptism. The Amish church holds their set of rules above the Word of God, plain and simple. (no pun intended)

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              Don Curtis
              Comment on reading the Bible (August 23rd, 2012 at 12:27)

              reading the Bible

              I don’t know where you are getting your information that you are making such blanket emphatic statements. I know, for a fact, that my son, Mark, reads his Bible. He reads it through in two years. One year the Old Testament and then the next year the New Testament. I called him up and read these comments. He felt they were unfair and and not accurate for the majority of the Amish. He said that the Old Order Amish are now publishing a daily devotional book titled “Taglich Manna” that he uses along with his Bible reading. The authors have to be members in good standing of horse and buggy churches. All of the Amish in his community are strongly encouraged to have family devotion time and personal devotional time. As to the Ordnung. He said that Christ left His Word, the Holy Spirit, and the Church to continue His work on earth. What bothers Mark is that many Evangelical churches are relying on the “Spirit” to lead them. Yet, many things have crept into the church that are strictly forbidden by Christ, Himself. For example, divorce and remarriage is forbidden by Christ yet the divorce and remarriage rate among Evangelical Christians is just as high if not higher than that of the general American public. How can this be leading by the Spirit? Mark said he just recently heard a sermon by an Amish minister who preached about the prevalence of “Verbal Adoration” in many non-Amish churches. Praising and worshipping God with the mouth. Mark said that there is nothing wrong with this but that worshipping God through obedience is the best praise. Read about Saul and the Amalakites. Saul chose verbal and physical adoration through sacrifice. God wanted obedience. There is nothing wrong with praising God with the mouth as long as obedience goes along with it. Lip service alone is not enough. As far as the Ordnung, Mark says that he knows that it will not get him into Heaven. He has accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as his personal savior and his church stresses this, too. Mark views the ordnung of the church as guard-rails on the small and narrow way that Christ said would lead Christians to Heaven. Christ is the door that leads on to this small way. Anyway, I think that some comments were made here as blanket statements that are just not accurate and my son feels that way, too.

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                Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 23rd, 2012 at 15:15)

                Oh my, no one is pointing to anyone personally. My one and only point is that God wrote the Bible and men wrote the Ordnung. I apologize if you think my comments sounded personal in nature. By the way, you are assming I’m an Evangelical. Not so. And I do NOT believe in divorce or remarriage.

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                  Valerie
                  Comment on Let's work together for the common good (August 24th, 2012 at 06:44)

                  Let's work together for the common good

                  Magnolia Tea, I didn’t get the impression that you pointing fingers, but merely emphasizing God’s Holy Scriptures as our source of living out our Christianity. I apologize as well if I offended by my comments-I’m trying to understand all this because I do know some God fearing former Amish.

                  At same time, currently I would be classified as in the “Evangelical” group-and comments made about us can be just as hurtful. Good reason to point out divorce rate. May I remind though that alot of people are left by their spouses and didn’t choose divorce. Alot of people in Evangelical churches, came to the Lord AFTER divorce because someone reached out to them. And it has also been proven that the divorce rate outside church would be higher if people didn’t just “live together” instead of marry-when they split up-there’s no record of it. I see the churches at large becoming more lukewarm and there is need of repentance.

                  At the same time,let’s all remember to think of each other as more highly than ourselves for Jesus taught this:
                  “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee, and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men-extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess. And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ “I tell you, this man went down to his house justifed rather than the other; for everyne who exalts himself will be abased, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.: Luke 18:10-14

                  Jesus point is obvious, let’s remind ourselves we are supposed to not compare ourselves but look to God for mercy. And let’s all pray for the church at large, we need revival.

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    Tammy N
    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 20th, 2012 at 09:29)

    Hey there! I just wanted you to know that I am getting your email updates now. I had to use a different email for some reason. I’m happy to get today’s update. I enjoyed the film very much. Such a sweet family!

    Many of the little songs they sang I’ve heard in the past before the Baptist Church became “Contemporary”. It made me miss those days!

    I watch the Duggars on TV and this family reminded me of Amish Duggars…LOL!

    I think it is horrible to be “black-balled or shunned” because it is supposed to be a Christ based religion is it not?? It is bad when rules instead of love and acceptance are the norm. Something I never understood is the Amish can be very forgiving to strangers that “hurt” them in some way. ie the school shooting/killing, but cannot and will not forgive those that want to worship in a different way, or even just live in a different way. No parent wants to see their child live in a sinful way, but if that child decides to worship in a different way than they were raised I just don’t see shunning them at all.

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      Lattice
      Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 20th, 2012 at 13:01)

      That is a sharp observation, Tammy, and you are correct. They definitely hold church members to a different standard than they do outsiders. They expect other church members to keep the vow they made to the Church and to God.

      “To him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin” (James 4:17). This is the response and verse that was quoted to me when I asked a similar question.

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        Tammy N
        Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 20th, 2012 at 13:41)

        Lattice…I could see the point of them maybe not letting them participate in “Church” type things, but to totally shun them as a family is altogether too harsh to me. Maybe lifestyle/Church is too interwoven.

        What would it hurt for a “shunned” person to have a family meal or celebrate a Holiday like Christmas along with the family in the Family Home etc…it just seems incredibly cruel to me.

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          Tammy N
          Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 20th, 2012 at 13:43)

          Whatever happened to “love ’em up” and kindness to win them back into the fold??

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          Lance
          Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 20th, 2012 at 14:23)

          Shunning is a very difficult doctrine to accept and to obey. Please read the Dortrecht Confession to find the source of the doctrine for the churches that observe it. : http://www.gameo.org/encyclopedia/contents/D674.html Excommunication and shunning are found in articles 16 and 17. Be sure to look up the scriptures that are referenced in the confession. The Jeremiah 59:2 reference should be Isaiah 59:2.

          The Amish see this doctrine as commanded by God to keep the church pure, and free of ‘leaven’. To them, not having this doctrine would be disobeying God and would make themselves an apostate church.

          Here is a listing of scripture references about this subject from the above confession and the ‘1001 Questions and Answers on the Christian Life’ book: Mt 18:15-18, 1Cor 5, 2Thess 3:6 3:14-15, Titus 3:10, Rom 16:17, 2John 1:11, Gal 5:9, Eze 36:17-24, Joshua 7, Isaiah 59:2, 1Tim 5:20, 2Cor 10:8, 1Cor 13:10, James 5:19-20.
          You can copy this list and paste it into the search box on http://www.biblegateway.com/ or you look them up in your own Bible. When the Amish read the English Bible, they use the King James version.

          It is just as hard to put this doctrine into practice as it is to understand it. Whether it is in the Bible should not be the debate, but how and when it should be used can be. Why so many churches ignore the above scriptures is something you would have to ask them.

        • *
          Jessica G.
          Comment on Shunning and Church Membership (August 31st, 2012 at 01:42)

          Shunning and Church Membership

          I agree, it’s hard to understand. But shunning does seem to be Biblical… although the man shunned in the New Testament account was living in very serious sin. I’m not sure what I think about the idea of shunning for less serious breaches of church conduct. But then, each member has agreed to the church standards and to fight against those standards, it could be argued, shows up the sins of pride and rebellion.

          Over the last few months my church has had to expel a member. He came from a non-Mennonite background and has a hard time submitting to the will of the church in certain areas. He is now no longer a member (his wife still is, which makes the situation very hard) but he still attends church and the members still talk to him. However he can’t take communion or participate in the Holy Kiss. As far as I understand, the church members distance him from their fellowship in small ways, such as not inviting him over for dinner or to a camp out, or only talking about the weather rather than more serious things. They tell me they treat him like they would one of their non-Mennonite neighbours: kindly and lovingly, but not with the close sense of brotherhood and community they share with fellow church members. The purpose of this is let him realize what he’s giving up in refusing to submit, and hopefully to bring him back into relationship with God and the church.

  • *
    Comment on I WATCH 1 AND 2 (August 20th, 2012 at 10:14)

    I WATCH 1 AND 2

    I watched 1-2 on utube. How do i see the rest? Thanks

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    Klaas from the Netherlands
    Comment on BBC and the Amish (August 20th, 2012 at 14:53)

    BBC and the Amish

    I am amazed that the BBC which in general has a hostile tendency towards christianity has such a love afair with the Amish. Is it just the ‘romantic view’ of it or else? Though I like their films about the Amish in general the BBC isn’t today a trustworthy news source anymore.

    • *
      OldKat
      Comment on Well said. (August 21st, 2012 at 21:20)

      Well said.

      I was thinking the same thing; the BBC is even more antagonistic towards Christianity than the left of center American mainstream media, yet they seem enamored with the Amish. I was also thinking that the only church some Brits will probably ever know is the strong witness of this thoughtful couple. God works in mysterious ways indeed …

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    John
    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 20th, 2012 at 18:17)

    The Brits seems to have the Amish documentary mastered. One of the best ones is Living with the Amish, where 5 British youths travel to America to live with different groups of Amish. They even stay with an Old-Order Mennonite group. Here’s a clip of one of the British atheist youths having a discussion on faith with an Amish (Beachy/New order?) woman:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmcy4X_zaDw&feature=relmfu

  • *
    Judy Witt
    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 20th, 2012 at 19:03)

    Amish: A Secret Life on BBC

    I really appreciate being able to watch this on this site. I would not be able to see this any other way. It was truly very interesting and different from what we see here on tv regarding the Amish. I do agree with another person’s comment that it seemed the Lapps were like the Duggar or Bates family. I am curious as to how long this family was actually filmed. I did feel bad when Miriam actually broke down during the filming as I feel she was strugglig with the decision they had made to be filmed. They did truly open up their home for the cameras and I am sure we saw some very real scenes from the family and not just ones that are written or staged.

  • *
    Slightly-handled-Order-man
    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 20th, 2012 at 20:53)

    I only watched the first couple of minutes of the film to see what its like and I have to say I enjoyed the song “Power” that David and the children sang in the buggy.

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    Julie Turner
    Comment on submissive role (August 21st, 2012 at 01:03)

    submissive role

    It seems the female interviewer had a hard time adjusting to dear Miriam’s desire to get up and make a breakfast for her husband and care for his needs. A wife is a husbands help meet and it is right for her to be serving her husband in such a loving way, but the interviewers comments about it, tell me she did not agree, because of her modern understanding about relationships.
    Putting others before ourselves is what God calls us to do, but this concept is totally foreign to non christian people.
    I say… Good on ya Miriam.

    • *
      Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 21st, 2012 at 19:21)

      Julie, I agree. The interviewer seemed to be pressing for a bit of rebellion in Miriam. I, personally, loved and agreed with Miriam’s answers.

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    Valerie
    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 21st, 2012 at 05:35)

    Yes, Julie that is a wifes role and far be it from the Amish to stray from that understanding as our culture has gone, and even crept into the church. Example: My dad left our family in 1973 for what he thought was that “greener grass on the other side”. Mom was like Miriam in that her life centered around her family and she served dad same way Miriam did. But as divorce hit our home and so many and increased the last few decades, even Christian women started questioning-and felt need for their own careers “just in case” they had to take care of themselves some day. I’ve seen this time and time again. I wonder, did she question Miriam to give her the opportunity to make a point to the world? To bring us back to where we once were?

    Another value was the “time” dad wanted to spend with his children. David sacrificed more income for family time. How many in our society are spending more time, for education, in hopes of higher income, thinking this is what their families need? David bought a 75 acre farm having only an 8th grade education. Hmmm.

    And I loved how the tiny ones were right in there helping, feeling important, feeling like they were contributing, working together, singing together, playing together-

    I imagine Miriam broke down for many reasons. Unless we’ve lived it, it’s a culture that truly is hard to “empathize” with. There’s alot of changes like this stirring the Amish all over these days.
    Many are finding themselves at this crossroad, questioning some of what was rquired of them. Wish we could see this same family a few years from now.

    • *
      OldKat
      Comment on Quite the contrary ... (August 21st, 2012 at 21:50)

      Quite the contrary ...

      RE: “I wonder, did she question Miriam to give her the opportunity to make a point to the world? To bring us back to where we once were?” I think that she was making “an issue” about it because it is absolutely foreign to modern culture. She was attempting to belittle her for this practice … in my opinion. HOWEVER, through the interviewers clumsy style she opened a door that the graceful Miriam sailed right through and gave a strong witness in doing so! I call that a God thing.

      BTW: My lovely bride of 34 years has been getting up (on the 14 days / month that I work away from home) at 3:30 AM for nearly ALL of those years to fix: my breakfast, my lunch and my dinner. I shower, dress, eat breakfast and leave the house by 4:30 AM and I don’t get home until well after 7:30 PM, too late to eat dinner before going to bed in time to do it all again the next day. She packs my lunch and dinner because she worries about how I would eat if my only chance to eat was from the fast food places around my job.

      She has been constantly questioned, even ridiculed over the years by her “liberated” coworkers for doing this. Little do they know that I have told her repeatedly that she doesn’t need to do this, but her answer to that is similar to that given by Miriam. It is also the same answer she gives her friends and co-workers. I tell her that this is THEIR church for the week, as many of them will admit that their personal life and even their marriages are not what they should be. Yet they stand in judgment of her for taking the time to ensure that I am properly nourished. I’m gonna guess that God has little place in the homes of many of her coworkers, but that is just a guess.

      • *
        Valerie
        Comment on Liberated? (August 22nd, 2012 at 05:27)

        Liberated?

        OldKat, I was so blessed by your comments about your wife. The deception of the day, is to think women have been liberated when I believe they’ve bought into a different bondage altogether and don’t even recognize it. God bless your wife, for allowing herself to be that “peculiar people” the Word of God says we are supposed to be, and to be a light in the darkness. Yes, I hear that mentality constantly having worked in secular environments most of my life. As Proverbs 31:27 says: “And her husband praises her”

        Perhaps I was giving the production company the benefit of the doubt, as I had also been briefly involved with a UK production company who was seeking former Amish that chose to not dump their Anabaptist values as PC said that led me to believe they wanted to help the people of the UK with these films-which leads me to believe that Miriam and David were probably presented with this same intent by them, and so rather than it being a pride thing in them as their Amish would see it, I believe they felt led to do a greater good for all who would see it. In this way, they’d be laying self aside (knowing consequences) in the hopes of helping spread God’s truth as someone else mentioned.

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          OldKat
          Comment on Who knows? (August 22nd, 2012 at 09:05)

          Who knows?

          Valerie, you could be correct. I give little slack to those in the media, whatever media it might happen to be; print, broadcast or documentary, etc because they seem to be constantly pushing an agenda. One that is counter to traditional, Christian values at that.

          However, one time I expressed this to a solid Christian friend and he said that he pays very little attention to them. Said it makes it easier that way. I have a hard time doing that because I can’t help but wonder how many people have been lead astray by the vile, hateful mainstream media …and how many more will do the same.

          My friend had an answer for that, too. He said; “Yep that is true, BUT I have read all the way to the end of Scripture and we win!” Guess that is about as good of a way of looking at it as any. Thanks for your feedback.

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    Lucie
    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 21st, 2012 at 08:30)

    Thank you for the link, Erik. Very interesting. I loved Miriam’s smile. One thing that particularly puzzled me was how the Lapps were able to socialize with shunned or excommunicated former church members with such apparent openness.

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    Lance
    Comment on Thank you Miriam (August 21st, 2012 at 12:05)

    Thank you Miriam

    Everything Miriam said in the 18th minute of the video is true. The clothing women wear can be a help or a hindrance for men to walk in God’s way. In the ‘Living with the Amish’ series, Martha Miller says she would not want to make a man lust after her by wearing revealing clothing.

    I would like to thank both of these women for their witness. It is my hope that others will hear them and live in a way that is upbuilding to God’s kingdom, instead of the stumbling block that the world embraces.

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    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 21st, 2012 at 12:13)

    These families have been in the process of “leaving” the Amish for a couple of years now. I see some of them at meetings, like the Beachy Amish tent meetings at Whitehorse, PA a couple of weeks ago. (www.http://tentmeetings.com/) And at the Kingdom Fellowship Weekend just a couple of days ago (http://www.kingdomfellowshipweekend.org/). By the way, hopefully soon they will have some of the messages posted on there, some excellent teaching on frugal living and community by John D. Martin. These messages explain the “why” of simple living.
    At this point many of these Amish/ex-Amish families featured in the video, if not all, are not interested in totally dumping their Amish values, but want to remain within a conservative Anabaptist tradition of some sort. But many times when people leave, they soon get swallowed into the larger culture, against their own desire.
    Mark Curtis’ and Lance’s comments above speak about an aspect, the “I” vs. the “we” mentality, that is at the core of Anabaptism, and is rarely replicated in mainstream churches. It remains to be seen if these families will get sucked into mainstream individualism … where the voice of my opinion trumps the voice of the community of the believers.

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    Valerie
    Comment on The Godly Home Series (August 21st, 2012 at 17:50)

    The Godly Home Series

    Some of the former Amish that wish to remain plain and adhere to their Anabaptist doctrines & culture, joined some churches in Lancaser County one of which is Charity Ministries. I bring this up because alot of the values witnessed on this film, are taught in a wonderful series of messages called “The Godly Home” by pastor Denny Kennaston who just went to be with the Lord July 4.
    I love this whole series, and highly recommend it, which you can listen to online, but also can order, donation only at:

    www.charityministries.org

    -I promise you will love it.It has helped & benefited numerous families

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      deb from long island
      Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 21st, 2012 at 18:41)

      I do own it and I love it…..There is an elderly couple at my church that gives a Charity tape every Mother’s Day and Father’s Day to every family. They gave me the set you are speaking of and we love it. I am glad to know they are online…..Thanks for the info…deb <

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    Valerie
    Comment on Correction regarding Godly Home Series (August 21st, 2012 at 17:59)

    Correction regarding Godly Home Series

    I apologize, this is the link for The Godly Home Series

    http://www.ephrataministries.org/listen.a5w

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    Slightly-handled-Order-man
    Comment on :”That’s righteous, I must say” (August 21st, 2012 at 18:27)

    :”That’s righteous, I must say”

    Vallerie
    Thank you for the “Godly Home Series”, I wonder though, is mister Kenaston’s sermon style typical, or similar to an Amish sermon?

    I apologize, but sometimes he sounds a little bit like a Martin Short (SCTV, Saturday Night Live, “Three Amigos”) comedy character, particularly in “A Quiet Ordered Life”.

    I think I can hear the Baptist ministry influence a bit.

    The way he said “I’m a policeman and a policeman polices” sounds like Martin Short, really.

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      Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 21st, 2012 at 18:59)

      Denny Kenaston was a Baptist originally, so his Baptist style shows through. That said, it is not unheard of for an Amish preacher to get a bit vehement in his sermon. I heard an Amish man preaching a quarter of a mile away once, and he was “letting her rip.” :-)
      On another note, The Godly Home series can be seen in video at www.thegodlyhome.org

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    John
    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 21st, 2012 at 19:16)

    I’d be cautious about Charity Christian Fellowship. The church is known to be very authoritarian and controlling.

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      Lance
      Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 21st, 2012 at 19:26)

      Charity is like a very permissive Amish group. If they are authoritarian and controlling, what does that make the Amish?

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    Daniel Endy
    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 21st, 2012 at 20:43)

    Thanks for sharing. The best I’ve seen.

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    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (August 25th, 2012 at 09:15)

    Oh glory! If ever there was a post that caused more hair-splitting coments! hehehe….I love this. My own view is that if this couple felt lead of the Lord, so be it. God does not require the same actions from each of His children. Also, the Ordnung is so diverse as well! I have seen young Lancaster Amish women wearing plain handknit sweaters. Here where my Amish friend lives, no sweaters are allowed, as per the Ordnung. No sweaters? Seriously??

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    Rich Stevick
    Comment on And another perspective (August 25th, 2012 at 10:08)

    And another perspective

    From a purely sociological perspective, all of the ordnung rules do not have to make sense, e.g., one strap suspenders for the Big Valley Renno people, no window screens for the Nebraska leit,dirt lanes and “driveways for the Swartzentrubers, or scooters instead of bicycles for the Lancaster settlements. I doubt that any Amish would argue that two-strap suspenders, window screens,gravel or even blacktop lanes, or bicycles are evil. The main point is that you have to yield to the community ordnung, i.e., to be willing to give yourself up. Community trumps individual preferences. The common-unity depends on this. Rich

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    Shameme Adams
    Comment on GIRL FROM ENGLAND WHO WANTS TO BEFRIEND LAPP FAMILY (September 18th, 2012 at 03:25)

    GIRL FROM ENGLAND WHO WANTS TO BEFRIEND LAPP FAMILY

    I saw this programme and the family were so nice!. There were a couple of things that made me cringe a little but most of it where good (including the songs)!. The children were gorgeous (Katie was outnumbered by the boys)!!, lol…..and that naughty rooster should have his own show!!.I thought they all had a real charm about them and me and my Mum would love to contact them!-befriend them!!. I know it sounds different!. All I can gather is that they live in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania and moved on a farm. But many Amish will love there on farms!!. As I, being a person from ENGLAND, was the target audience I think it would be really apt for me to do this too!. If anyone knows where they are (postal address as I know they don’t believe in using gadgets like the internet) please email me. It’s shameme.adams@gmail.com

    Thanks

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    Dee Worrell
    Comment on Bravo BBC on Amish: A Secret Life (October 6th, 2012 at 12:08)

    Bravo BBC on Amish: A Secret Life

    This was the best documentary I have seen and I applaud BBC for making this. God Bless David and Miriam Lapp and there family for allowing us into there world in Lancaster Co, PA. It’s a shame the way the Amish are exploited in the US on the TLC network channel for the awful untrue Breaking Amish TV show. I’ve been to Lancaster County, PA particularly in Bird in Hand and we always stay in a small Amish owned motel that is off the main roads. I love the peacefulness and the beauty of the area. I have found that the Amish people we have meant and talked to be very straight forward and nice.

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    Michael Bell
    Comment on Enlightenment (November 22nd, 2012 at 06:01)

    Enlightenment

    The very fact that very few Amish would ever read these comments (having little internet access) just adds to the whole topic and makes me laugh too.

    I hope the Lapp family are allowed to retain to the utmost their privacy, by the way.

    My comment is that in the documentary right at the start, David prays beautifully (with the family) in regard to the BBC, saying, “[We pray]… that it [the filming] would soften somebody’s heart”.

    Well, I feel that his prayer was answered. It truly did have a huge effect on my own personal relationship with God and has since made me seek the truth about Jesus.

    It has given me hope in life.

    For that reason I believe all this discussion about whether he broke the Ordnung, etc. is futile in the evidence that I bring – if you improve the life of others, nothing or no one can justify someone stopping you.

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      deb from long island
      Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (November 23rd, 2012 at 19:24)

      Amen..I am so sure the Lapp family would agree and tell you that anything they had to go through was worth it to hear your testimony…No looking back…..No looking back……deb <

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    Lattice
    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (December 1st, 2012 at 19:46)

    I like your enthusiasm!

    You are probably correct in your statement that many are misinterpreting scripture and teaching things that are not in accordance with God’s Word. For those who know and understand, remember James 4:17. For those who did know, but now consider it not so very important, remember II Peter 2:21; For the others (those who perhaps trust in an inaccurate teaching) I hope that God will look at the heart.

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    linda
    Comment on salt (December 29th, 2012 at 23:22)

    salt

    I was so pleased to see this documentary. BBC has respect not afforded American broadcasters, so it is no surprise this couple trusted their story to the BBC. That said, I am a mainstream American who really appreciates the principles the Amish live by. As a Christian, I understand where they are coming from. David’s comments about not having electricity, because of the distrctions that come with it are spot on. Technology has some benefits, but living close to the earth is a healthier both mentally and physically. Miriam’s take on her place as a woman also resonates. I have lived mostly by the dictates of modern society and can honestly say the original plan for man and wife is still superior, when balanced. The Amish are preserving a way of life which was once the norm for early America. I am grateful to the Lapp’s for being the salt when others have integrated into modern society. I thank them for being the light to remind all that there is anothr way to live. A good way.

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    Wills Kitchen
    Comment on Wives (January 3rd, 2013 at 12:49)

    Wives

    If it weren’t for my wife I’d have died of starvation years ago. Did any of you catch her comment? “I AM THE QUEEN OF THIS HOUSE!” She was very matter of fact there.

    I’m honestly glad that David didn’t go off the deep end like Ephraim Stolzfus did. David and his family are better off in the Amish culture with their new found truth. There is no need for them to leave the Amish when they can live peacefully as an Amish family and in the knowledge of salvation through grace by faith alone.

    I’m here to tell you. If the Lord waits to come back for us, you will soon see a change in the Amish that reflects the salvation through faith doctrine. They are changing rapidly and the upcoming generation of bishops, deacons, and ministers will not sound like their grandfathers.

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    Joshua
    Comment on Beautiful blessed family! (February 8th, 2013 at 11:56)

    Beautiful blessed family!

    2 things that are really enough said in the documentary:
    When Miriam explains herself for making David breakfast and says she is “Queen of the house”. She is indeed just that!
    At the end when David talks about “love takes time” and explains he must earn his daughters love and trust by caring and spending time with her now….being there for her now so that she will be his “nurse” and care for him when he is 80.

    I wish I was born into that faith

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    nelson
    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (May 11th, 2013 at 12:58)

    Don , why aren’t you Amish, and live where your son lives

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    Aurianna Long
    Comment on God shall choose whom to share his wisdom with... (May 12th, 2013 at 03:02)

    God shall choose whom to share his wisdom with...

    God bless them for letting the lord lead them and not men. I saw on the news they were excommunicated. I do believe the man was being dishonest about the reasons though. Most of the behavior they had on this show made the couple appear to be adhering to a more new order perspective. At least if they were American, this would be true. While the show may have been a clincher, their were plenty of other reasons they would have been excommunicated in an old order church. From what I understand even discussing god is forbidden in the old order. But then again each (Ordnung) I think it’s called this, not sure though? Has their own rules.

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    henryk
    Comment on The BBC documentry (June 14th, 2013 at 13:17)

    The BBC documentry

    I read some of the comments here. Someone said that David discovered his “I” and wanted a car. That sounds a bit mean.

    What I can say is that thanks to Dave and Miriam allowing “Us” to look in on their life they have shown us what many are missing living in the Tchno Age. Watching the kids running around shows us what can be gain from a life of simplicity. When you think longer and deeper you will find out that you will not miss much in SIMPLITYING your life. You will be GAINING immensly !!!

    Thank You David and Miriam

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    Louise Tjittes
    Comment on Sending a letter to David and Miriam (July 19th, 2013 at 03:12)

    Sending a letter to David and Miriam

    Hello,

    I almost finished my school in the Netherlands.
    Before going to the university I would love to take one year off.
    I recently saw this documentary and it moved me. I had the feeling that I had to go to live for a few months with this family.
    I would love to live as close to jesus as they do reading the Bible daily.
    Can someone give me the address or something so I could write to David and Miriam?? Or the address of someone who knows them so they could give a letter to them.

    (I appoligise for my bad english)

    Many thanks,

    Louise

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    jakob
    Comment on Gehet hin und lehret alle Völker (July 30th, 2013 at 17:25)

    Gehet hin und lehret alle Völker

    Vielen Dank für diesen Einblick in ein Leben mit Jesus. Für Jesus das eigene Leben zu geben (und im Fall von David und Miriam das Leben mit der Gemeinschaft im Vertrauen auf Jesus auch etwas in Unordnung zu bringen) ist ein starkes Zeichen für die Liebe zu Jesus und es erfüllt das Leben. Der gute Wille und das gute Ziel Davids und Miriams für diesen Film wird auch die Ältesten überzeugen. Hoffe ich für sie im Namen Jesu. Gott segne die Familie!

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    Chris
    Comment on Mad props (November 21st, 2013 at 08:15)

    Mad props

    For somebody who isn’t much religious, it’s nice to see a family live with solid principles. Family values, using their own energy to get things done, humility. It’d be sad to think they’ve been ostracised from their church for showing us their way of life. If anything, it’s increased my respect for the Amish way.. Apart from the whole praising god thing. Don’t get me wrong, I respect beliefs. But these guys rely on themselves more than most. They’re more of god and nature than many if those who preach. Bravo.

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    Lucy
    Comment on Help With Address (November 28th, 2013 at 03:43)

    Help With Address

    I am hoping to contact the same Lapp family, David and Miriam Lapp who have 5 children mentioned, who were in the t.v. documentary on BBC1, who live in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. I think the farm that is listed on Google run by those with the same name isn’t run by the correct people so can I have the address of the correct couple? I would like to write them a letter.
    Please can I have an address?

    My email is: lanpingpug@yahoo.com

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    (((((HUGS))))) sandi
    Comment on Would love to write to Miriam! (December 22nd, 2013 at 04:36)

    Would love to write to Miriam!

    I loved this documentary and family, and Miriam is such a beautiful, beautiful woman! Wish I knew how to get them a letter of appreciation. I am not Amish and have no plans to be, but I am so very thankful for the refreshing/renewal I needed and received while watching this. :)

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    Fiona
    Comment on David &amp; Miriam's address (January 24th, 2014 at 19:01)

    David &amp; Miriam's address

    As a few have previously asked, is it possible to have David and Miriam’s address. I’d like to send a letter of thanks. Their example really melted my heart.

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      Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (January 27th, 2014 at 10:51)

      Fiona and others, thanks for your comments and I’m glad you enjoyed this. I don’t have the Lapps’ address and if did not sure I could even give it out here. However maybe by contacting someone who knows them (church, etc) you could drop them a line that way.

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    Paul
    Comment on What ever happened to them... (March 25th, 2015 at 14:43)

    What ever happened to them...

    I enjoyed watching this documentary very much. Although i think it missed a few wonderful opportunities for more of an in depth conversation with the Lapps. Whether it was from a time standpoint. Then they should have made it a two-part documentary. Or whether it was from a British standpoint and the producers/narrators just didn’t quite understand this lifestyle. Or even an over zealous editor. I’m not sure. But it just could have been more then what was presented. Anyway, i’m curious to know what happened to this family. Did there new farm become a success? How are the children doing etc. I wish i could have known them personally. They came across as very nice down to earth people.

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    Amy
    Comment on Amish: A Secret Life on BBC (February 18th, 2016 at 15:13)

    I saw this a couple of years ago. I always wondered why they just didn’t leave and join an Amish church that does believe that salvation comes from Christ alone and is not earned by good works. Certainly we know, as in the case of Mark who joined the Amish, that they exist. I don’t understand why there are Amish that believe that and Amish who don’t. Clearly, not all Amish are on the same page. I don’t mean to generalize here, but when there are so many sects of Amish, God’s Word is not being followed. The same as modern churches. I don’t think God is happy when his people are divided.

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