28 responses to What do Amish think about modern music?

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    Debbie H
    What do Amish think about modern music? (June 18th, 2013 at 08:27)

    Great start to a good talk. I like the modern Christian music and find nothing wrong with instruments. David played instruments to worship God and the Psalms instruct us to use them in praising God. However, I do agree that we should check our motives and chose our music using the criteria of, “Does it bring glory to God.”

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    Modern Music (June 18th, 2013 at 08:40)

    Modern Music

    I was very moved when he spoke on this topic to those of us who went with him to visit various businesses. His concern for young people and sincerity were obvious, and as he talked, I realized that what he was saying was very much what many non-Amish would want to say to their children. While I enjoy much modern music, there’s an unfortunate amount that glorifies standards I would not want my children or grandchildren to hold.

    Modern Music

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    Terry Berger
    Couldn't agree more!! (June 18th, 2013 at 09:30)

    Couldn't agree more!!

    Amen!!

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    Marcie
    Oh my! (June 18th, 2013 at 10:04)

    Oh my!

    Oh my! I’ve been contemplating joining the mennonite or amish mennonite church for some time now. One of my biggest obstacles has been on the issue of music. I didn’t understand what the objection was. What a revelation! I never even thought of WHY God gave us the ability to sing. We sing to glorify God! (I feel I’ve also had kind of a “duh” moment. :-) )
    Thank you so much for this article!

    • Glad if it was helpful Marcie. Sometimes it helps to break down the things we take for granted. I often don’t take the time to do so myself. Which is why I appreciate things like this.

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      J. G.
      What do Amish think about modern music? (June 22nd, 2013 at 23:04)

      I know how you feel Marcie. I’m in the process of joining a conservative Mennonite church and the acapella standard was one of the hardest things to accept. I thought it was strict and completely unnecessary. But one day it occurred to me, am I just going by my own tastes in music or am I really seeking to glorify God in sincerity and truth? Music has the potential for the most beautiful expression of worship. It also has the potential to express the basest of carnality. You can think of it as a continuum; on one end is music probably anyone could agree is “bad.” On the other end, music that is pure, holy and worshipful. If a church (or individual Christian) seeks to do the right thing, somewhere on that scale a line has to be drawn. Amish and Mennonites have chosen to put it at acapella only, which may be stricter than really necessary, but do we really need instruments to worship God? Instruments have their place and can be used for a godly purpose (king David) but too often in a church setting they come to detract from worship in its purest form and put too much emphasis on musicality or even entertainment.

      What do Amish think about modern music?

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    Patty Tolliver
    What do Amish think about modern music? (June 18th, 2013 at 10:30)

    What do Amish think about modern music?

    I agree that we sometimes veer away from the original reason for singing inspiriational songs. There are many of us who forget the whole purpose of singing and get caught up in the presentation of it rather than the reason for it. I think this question will give us more to think about the next time we sing a hymn, spiritual etc. Dance and sing praises to Lord!

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    Jean Junkin
    Amish Music (June 18th, 2013 at 13:15)

    Amish Music

    I belonged to the Choir in my High School. We were purely Acapella. Our leader believed that the emotion coming from an Acapella choir over ruled the instruments in the background. I have kept this in my heart for 47 years, the years since graduation.

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    Naomi Wilson
    What do Amish think about modern music? (June 18th, 2013 at 13:48)

    Thanks for sharing this, Erik. I look forward to upcoming posts on this topic. My husband and I are both classically trained musicians. We have recently started attending a Beachy Amish Mennonite church, and find the four part a cappella singing so beautiful and uplifting. When instruments are used in worship, in my experience, the hymn singing becomes much more tentative and less worshipful. In the Beachy church, every member fills an important roll in the singing. Also, as music educators, my husband and I are just amazed at being in a room full of people who can ALL sing in four part harmony! I’ll take this over playing alongside a multi-million dollar pipe organ any day.

    Also, I am extremely wary of any music besides classical that is played over the radio. Anything that has a steady, pounding, repetitive beat (rock, pop, country) is intended to alter the thoughts and behaviors of the listener (trance induction), whether the lyrics are “Christian” or not. I used to enjoy oldies, classic rock, and some country, but after doing some research on this topic, I now find it all extremely distasteful.

    One last comment before I step off my soapbox. Since my husband teaches elementary school music, we recently decided to do a brief investigation into what music young people are exposed to these days. After a few hours of googling lyrics and youtube videos of today’s most prominent pop artists, words were insufficient to describe our feelings of shock, dismay, and disgust. Contemporary pop music is so overtly occultic and satanic, we just could not believe what we were seeing.

    What do Amish think about modern music?

    • Thanks Naomi, very interesting observations. I recently spoke with a priest and this topic came up…he observed that modern music inverts the melody-harmony-rhythm structure (hope I got that right) to place rhythm at the forefront, which is what drives the strong emotional reaction common to popular music.

      I don’t know that I am as concerned about the effects or dangers of popular music as others might be, but this idea sounded interesting. Though I do feel that uplifting music, just like the same sort of film and books, is preferable for numerous reasons. If for nothing else than many people are depressed enough as it is. Why not something that lifts the spirit.

      What do Amish think about modern music?

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    Klaas from The Netherlands
    how to escape modern music? (June 18th, 2013 at 15:49)

    how to escape modern music?

    First of all: a cappella can be so beautiful that only afterwards I discover that no instruments has been used. Personally I like a lot of modern music but start to hate it when I hear it unasked for e.g. in a mall. I don’t want that tune in my head and find it often difficult to get rid of it for it sometimes lasts for days. My head hijacked by some stupid drum beat. I think, hope, Amish in general escape this ‘freedom.’

    how to escape modern music?

    • Klaas, thank you for this. Hijacked eardrums. I like the phrase, and, like you, seriously dislike having to fend off the aural assault we face in some public places. Maybe earplugs, or earbuds?

      I didn’t realize a cappella could be so powerful as to simulate instruments. Wow.

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    OldKat
    Amish Youth Talk: Popular Music (June 18th, 2013 at 22:35)

    Amish Youth Talk: Popular Music

    Random thoughts:

    1)Re: “A good thing to keep in mind is that the purpose of singing is to give glory unto God. It should be an act of worship”. This past week I was reading The Amish In Their Own Words (TAITOW) compiled by Brad Igou and there was a commentary or letter from an Amish person to Family Life Magazine about this very subject. It really got my attention. His, her(?) take on it was that the reason the Amish have sung their traditional, slow hymns from the Ausbund a cappella is that it focuses the members on the words and their meanings; in short it is an act of worship. Whereas most churches have hymnals with the musical notes and the hymns are accompanied by instruments which can cause you to focus on HOW you are signing the words, are you staying with the music, etc. I thought about that Sunday in church and I have to admit that I really don’t internalize the words the way I should while I am signing (if what I do can even be called singing) instead I am worrying about if I am in tune or not (usually not), if I am ahead or behind the organist, etc. Obviously I need to do better & yes, the Amish have at the very least a point on this issue.

    2)One letter in TAITOW mentioned the time that it takes to sing a single hymn from the Ausbund; usually at least 20 minutes and the same hymn may take around 28 minutes in a Swartzentruber church.

    3)Another mentioned that since the hymns are passed on orally from generation to generation they may change slightly over time & the way they are sung in one church may be different from how they are sung in another. That surprised me.

    4)Still another questioned why some Plain churches are allowing songs to be sung in “rounds” as that leads to the same issue of focusing on HOW you are signing, not WHAT you are signing. Food for thought.

    5)To modern music. I remember when I was an early teenager and I had a friend whose mother did not allow us to play Johnny Cash records in their home, because she said his songs were too centered on violence and inappropriate behavior. At the time I thought she was exaggerating the issue. Listening to his music now, I can see where probably had a point. He was far from being the worst about singing songs that were not a positive influence on the youth of the day, but many of them were not pure either.

    6)I am old enough to remember when early Rock’n Roll was sometimes referred to as ”the devil’s music”. At the time I thought that was nonsense, though I probably never said so … at least not to the adults that called it that. I am not ready to cede that point, but listening to it now I hear all sorts on innuendo and suggestive lyrics that went right over my head back then. Why were these even included in the music of the day? I realize that it much more prevalent now; some of today’s music is overt and outright filthy, sick and deranged … but why? What is the point? I recently learned that even the term “rock ‘n roll” was a euphemism for sexual intercourse. It came from blue’s music.

    7)I saw an interview several months ago by one of the pioneers of the harder edged rock music, forget who it was now. Anyway he was commenting on the rock concert where the promoter hired the Hell’s Angels MC as security and one of them beat an attendee to death mere feet from the stage, while the show was in progress. His words went something to the effect of “This Hell’s Angel is beating a guy to death some 35’ from where the Rolling Stones are onstage signing ‘Sympathy For The Devil’. Is there anybody out there that doesn’t realize how NOT OKAY this is?” Yep, the Amish should be concerned, as we all should be. Much of the modern music may or may not be evil, but something about it is “not okay” to say the least. For those not familiar with ‘Sympathy For The Devil’ see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathy_for_the_Devil

    8)Finally, Erik: Any chance we will get to read the rest of this talk?

    Amish Youth Talk: Popular Music

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      On 2 of your points (June 19th, 2013 at 02:24)

      On 2 of your points

      My own quick thoughts:

      1) I don’t speak German but at an Amish youth singing last weekend I did find myself focusing on the words…it’s like you really savor each one as you sound out the notes for a span of time no one outside the Amish today really has patience for. I can see how it draws focus to what are essentially prayers being sung.

      8) Yes, definitely. Stay tuned for more segments to come.

      On 2 of your points

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    Forest
    What do Amish think about modern music? (June 19th, 2013 at 07:07)

    Just one thought this morning. I have had several conversations with people I felt were committed Christians who believed that in order to get a message to the world, they had to use the world’s methods to communicate the message. In this case, it meant using what some might call “Christian rock music” to entice younger people into church.

    I have some reservations about this. I am not sure we can win the world to Christ by becoming like the world. I agree with Naomi, that any music with a strong pounding beat can move people in the wrong ways. Music can be a powerful motivator of people, for good or evil. In our church we use no instruments, and the singing is often beautiful and moving (I help with that by singing very, very quietly, mind you….)

    I wonder if today we are all not so used to what passes as music in the 21st Century, that we have forgotten just how beautiful the old music can be. Most young people, and many not so young, have never experienced it.

    I’m not saying there is anything wrong with all modern music; but I believe we need to examine all of it, and, as with any other aspect of culture, seek guidence from God to discern what is helpful and uplifting, and what is not.

    Just a few random thoughts before going out to weed the tomatos…

    Forest

    What do Amish think about modern music?

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    Sandra Kathleen
    What do Amish think about modern music? (June 19th, 2013 at 08:49)

    I am a classically trained vocalist. Music in church– traditional much more so than “modern” has, in the past, been extremely important and [used to] determine whether or not I’d attend a given church.

    Even so, I’ve always understood that what we read, what we sing, what we hear [from TV, movies, etc., as well as music] is what becomes written on our minds and hearts, and, thus care needs to be used.

    In the past year, I have become very drawn to Anabaptist faith. Whether it was in one of the other conversations on this site or on the mennonniteusa.org site I can’t remember, but what has stuck with me is that Anabaptist is about living and bringing the kingdom today — something I have had in my heart for many years.

    So, now, I see all music, all “entertainment,” all media with a renewed sight.

    It is wise to encourage youth to listen with discretion, bringing a better understanding of long term effects.

    What do Amish think about modern music?

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    Debbie H
    What do Amish think about modern music? (June 19th, 2013 at 09:14)

    Had to respond again today on this subject after reading others responses. We keep saying, “modern music” but what we are mainly criticizing is the “words.” Putting Scripture to modern music is a way to get the message into the hearts and minds of young people. Yes, I agree that many of rock and roll, country, even old standards have unacceptable “words and subjects” as their song. However, the many tunes, the music could be attached to many Scripture words.

    As for singing a cappella makes you focus on the words, that is not the case for me. As a life long singer I focus on the words because I was taught to enunciate each word (something singers today do not do) and to think about their meaning when singing them. I have never heard or sung Amish hymns so I do not know if that type of singing would make it better.

    As for modern verses traditional hymns, we were not born singing Amazing Grace, In the Garden, He Lives or any other hymn. John and Charles Wesley put the “words” of their hymns to bar tunes of the day in order to attract the “sinners” of their day to come hear the gospel preached.

    I guess my point to all this rambling is this: Scripture can touch the heart prepared by God to receive it no matter the “music” accompaniment. Evil words can corrupt no matter the “music” accompaniment. The main concern is OUR motive for singing and listening to them. After all, there are many people that come to church for other reasons than worshipping God. My hope is that no matter their motive for coming, they hear the gospel and come to know Christ.

    I’ll stop preaching now. :)

    What do Amish think about modern music?

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    Alice Mary
    What do Amish think about modern music? (June 19th, 2013 at 11:18)

    Scripture does mention music, making a “joyful noise”, singing, and biblical people used cymbals, harps (various types of accompaniment). Again, and as usual, it’s MANkind who believes they have the ability to interpret, and re-interpret, what God’s true meaning is/was. As far as I know, I’ll never absolutely know—in this lifetime–nor will anyone else His/Her meaning (that is what “life” is for—FINDING one’s way, believing what makes the most sense/heartfelt belief to you, for the good of all…whether you believe in the Bible, Koran,etc.)

    If God made the birds to “sing”, their song isn’t merely entertainment for the rest of the animal (or human) world, but as a means of communication among their species. I remember learning at some point in my life (60+) that mankind discovered how to communicate over long distances by drumbeats, wind instruments, etc. Did putting words/singing & music/drumbeats together suddenly become the work of the devil? I guess that’s something we’ll all have to figure out on our individual journey.

    Alice Mary

    What do Amish think about modern music?

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    Naomi Wilson
    singing sample (June 19th, 2013 at 12:16)

    singing sample

    Here is an example of a cappella, four-part singing in a Beachy church. It’s interesting to note by listening to the preceding sermons that this is an unfamiliar hymn, and most in the congregation have only sung it once or twice. The singing is in the very beginning of the sermon recording.

    http://pilgrimfellowship.org/7-2/?sermon_id=40

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    annmarie
    What do Amish think about modern music? (June 19th, 2013 at 12:32)

    Love reading all the comments and this post. I just wanted to add that it is funny how our taste in music changes. I use to hate the old christian/church music…now when I hear it, it makes me deeply feel that it is angelic. I feel like I can almost see angels singing in heaven and I am filled with such peace :)

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    Katrina
    Music Article Comments (June 19th, 2013 at 14:28)

    Music Article Comments

    Several years ago, a study looked at teens and what the teens said were their fvorite songs. The researchers learned that when teens listen to music, they pay more attention to the beat/rhythm than the actual words. The teens liked the beat of their favorite songs and were not really aware of what the words were saying.(Which explains why songs with trashy lyrics become popular). Personally, I have always thought that modern music could be divided into the following 1. religious/praise songs; 2. drinking/drunk in a bar and here’s what happened next….. 3. I’m SO in love!!!! 4. Mad at the exgirlfriend,exwife,exhusband/exboyfriend/former manager /5. It’s over
    6. not an angel/bad dude/wanted by the law/don’t mess with me 7. dog/cat/bird/horse or other animals 8.”joke” songs ie Disco Duck. Feel free to add to these if you like.

    Music Article Comments

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    Sandra Kathleen
    Ausbund (June 24th, 2013 at 14:25)

    Ausbund

    Does the Ausbund have musical notation included with the words? I’ve hesitated getting one because I thought it had no musical notation.

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    Sandra Kathleen
    Music (June 24th, 2013 at 15:11)

    Music

    There was never a time in our household that we didn’t have music. Brought up in the Lutheran Church, the liturgy…prayer in song…has meant–still mean so very much to me. I embrace all liturgies, especially those that are the sung prayer of a participating congregation, as opposed to that “performed?” by only a small group or choir. Bach always signed his music with “A Soli Deo” — to God alone; Martin Luther is attributed with the quote, “Next to the Word of God is Music.”

    It has been hard for me to thoroughly enjoy some churches as I might when song in church service appeared to be very “professionally” oriented …and the congregation took more the feel of an audience …and sermons, while biblically-inspired, seemed more like group counseling sessions. These services do not speak to my heart in the same way. But that doesn’t mean they are less inspirational to others who have grown in a different culture or mores. I just don’t get the same sense of worship.

    I think singing a cappela or with instrument(s) is a matter of personal preference and, within a faith community, based upon the culture and tradition of that community: there is no “right” way.

    That said, I like these discussions (here and elsewhere on the site — thank you Erik), because it gets me/us thinking more intentionally about where and how and in what manner I lift my voice to God and witness my faith. I can revisit “intolerances” and pre-conceived “notions” I might have. What I have appreciated is knowing that God can be loved in song either way.

    And nothing is static: I would imagine the reasons for singing acapella among the Amish today are at least a little different than the reasons they did so in 1600.

    Back to the article: it is wise that we encourage our youth to consider the implications of listening to lyrics that do not really affirm their good hearts/values and good deeds, no matter what manner faith is expressed.

    Music

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    Sharon
    Acapella music (August 30th, 2013 at 13:30)

    Acapella music

    I belong to a non-denominational church where we believe that the Bible teaches to sing without instruments. Yes, in the Old Testament there were instruments. Yes, in Heaven there will be instruments. However, the word Acapella actually means “as in the church”, with no musicial instruments. The Bible states in the New Testament, which we are to follow, in Eph. 5:19 “Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord” and Col. 3:16 “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.” No where does it say to sing with instruments nor to play instruments. Along with this is the ruling out of choirs as it doesn’t say for some to sing and some to listen. Another thing is there are millions of people who would not have instruments to play. God made it easy for us to worship. The instruments were brought into the Catholic church in the 600′s, 600 years after the church was established. We do not need to add nor take away.

    Acapella music

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