42 responses to Do you believe in natural remedies?
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    Al in Ky.
    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 05:45)

    For several years now I have been reading in The Budget newspaper
    about Amish people in many states using burdock leaves and B & W salve to treat burns, some fairly serious. It seems like they are having very positive results. With this natural remedy/treatment and possibly others, I think we can learn a lot from the Amish. Prescription medicine is good and has its place, but I think our medical schools should also train doctors in use of natural remedies/treatments.

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      Carol
      Natural remedies (September 22nd, 2011 at 11:08)

      Natural remedies

      I would vote for natural first and am trying to learn more about treat ourselves. Wouldn’t it be great if our traditional doctors received training in the old fashioned natural methods as well as their man made chemical remedies. Our ancestors knew what plants and herbs were beneficial and they usually helped their ills. There is a definite swing back to natural today and that is good to see. Of course, the medicines of today, in some cases, are of benefit too.

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      Michigan Mary
      BURDOCK - IT WORKS (September 22nd, 2011 at 11:38)

      BURDOCK - IT WORKS

      … Take it from an Englisher – burdock leaves work! At least on scalding water burns right after it happens. We were camping in Indiana one weekend a couple of years back and I was boiling water for some reason that now escapes me. As I was picking it up off of the open fire pit, it got hung up on the side ring and the kettle tipped backwards, spilling the boiling water over my right hand. As quick as a rabbit the lady in the camp next to us snagged some burdock leaves from plants on the ground, crushed them in her hands to get the juices rolling out of the leaves and then wrapped them around my hand. She had me plunge my hand in ice-cold water first for a few minutes, but then she put the leaves on my hand – it worked! The pain stopped, the heat stopped, I had minimal blistering and no scarring. Some might think the ice-water had something to do with it but I have been burned before and the pain/heat never leaves THAT quick with just ice-water.

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    Sue
    Natural Remedies (September 22nd, 2011 at 06:26)

    Natural Remedies

    I am a firm believer. If you look at the history of pharmaceuticals, you’ll find that many are based on “natural” ingredients. People are still researching plants and their properties in the rainforest. I believe God put everything here we need.

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    Donna Godfrey
    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 07:26)

    I sure do! I feel we need both but am learning more and more about natural remedies.
    Read this article….I know one lady that belongs to a team that treats burns just this way…..it works!
    http://morechristlike.com/john-keim/

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    Jackie
    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 07:44)

    I beleieve in the home remedies I just need a teacher and a place to get the ingredents that doesnt cost a fortune. unfortunetly its cheaper to get pills and such at the drug store.

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    Char
    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 08:00)

    I usually go with ‘store-bought’ remedies myself.

    However, I have been reading about B&W salve with burdock leaves, and I was wondering, where do you get the ingredients and how do you apply them?

    I’m hoping someone will post some enlightenment on that. Thanks!

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      Dena
      Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 11:55)

      Char,
      You can ask a clerk in a good heath food type store, research the internet as there are many resources there too. Good luck!
      Dena

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    Char
    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 08:08)

    I do believe that everything we need to be healthy was provided to us in nature by our Creator. I have nothing against natural remedies, I just don’t know how to use them.

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    Katie Troyer
    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 08:27)

    Well, a little wine is good for the stomach. I make my own wine and for stomach’s sake I drink a little bit now and then.

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    Alice Aber
    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 08:27)

    Greetings!

    As a person who suffers with chronic illness and pain and have tried both natural and conventional medicines and remedies of all types I can tell you in the long run I feel much better with natural remedies for general care. Of course there are some things that require conventional medicine and common sense should prevail when choosing which is best for your particular situation.

    I also believe that sometimes the natural remedy might take a bit longer to do its job than conventional. In your case Erik were you able to take the natural remedy at the onset of your problem and given it more time to do its job you might have felt even better in the long run. I feel better putting less chemicals in my body that are found in conventional medicine.

    There are many good books on natural remedies and cures available today. I own several myself. I started my quest to learn more about natural healing when I went through a series of several different prescriptions trying to find something that would help my chronic illness that wound up making me feel like a zombie unable to think for myself because I was too drugged up. I would rather deal with the illness and be able to think straight than to not know what I was doing. In other words I wanted to feel better with less pain but still have a clear head, LOL.

    Today, I use conventional medicine very minimally and focus primarily on natural remedies and I am very glad I do.

    Blessings, Alice

    PS. I am hit and miss a lot lately because my neighbor had a major heart attack and I am quite busy taking care of her and her family and pets. Hope things will settle down soon. :-)

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      Michigan Mary
      GOD'S BLESSINGS! (September 22nd, 2011 at 11:40)

      GOD'S BLESSINGS!

      Alice – God Bless You for all that you do for your neighbors. You are truly a blessing in their lives!

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        Alice Aber
        Michigan Mary (September 22nd, 2011 at 14:07)

        Michigan Mary

        Thanks Mary!! I am humbled to be used by God in some small way to be a blessing to others, that in turn is a blessing to me. :-)

        Jean looked pretty good when I was down to visit her today under the circumstances. :-)

        Blessings, Alice

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    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 08:35)

    I think that natural remedies can help a lot if you know what to take, especailly for colds and the like. But I don’t think you will find a cure for everything(ie cancer, etc). I have been told a lot of things I just need to give to my son to cure him of his brain/spinal tumors. My son is 12 and was diagnosed at age 6. It is frustrating to have friends, friends of friends, family, etc tell me that “I just need to Have him try this”. lol. I write that I don’t like being told of natural remedies but I AM considering trying a “natural remedy”. I’m thinking of trying Boswellia as it has shown to have tumor fighting abilities at large dosed. My biggest problem is the large doses and related cost to that. I don’t think it will cure my son but I think it might help slow down growth of tumors. My opinion from what I have researched, anyway. Well…..I bet that was a lot more than you were expecting by asking such a simple question!

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    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 08:57)

    Definitely believe in natural cures, and homeopathic medicines. I try those first if I know what to take and can find it. I do think they may take a little longer to work, and that’s hard for those of us brought up in a “quick fix” world. Modern medicine does have it’s place, and we should be open to that, also.

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    Natural Remedies (September 22nd, 2011 at 09:19)

    Natural Remedies

    I became interested in natural medicine in my teen years and continue to learn about and to use herbal treatments. I am in the (long) process of writing a book about Herbalism from a Christian perspective – the monks of the middle ages were the doctors and pharmacists of their time. I make my own salves, tinctures and teas. I grow and wildgather herbs. I treat most of our ordinary ailments with natural means, although I am not averse to using conventional medicine, too. We have a family doctor and we have both had prescriptions this year. My husband, post-stroke, takes three medications, all of which are fairly mild.

    As to the woman with the question about Boswellia: It is what is commonly called frankincense, and is a resin from a tree. It is effective for reducing inflammation. It can be dissolved in wine and taken as a mild heart tonic – again, probably because of its ability to reduce inflammation. I dissolve it in warm olive oil and use it on my skin with lavender oil. In capsules, it is taken for arthritis pain. I would NOT recommend it in large doses for anything, and I suspect someone is hoping to make money by selling a fairly inexpensive and common herb to those who are desperate.

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    Galen Grote
    Comment on natural remedies (September 22nd, 2011 at 09:30)

    Comment on natural remedies

    Karen H, I’m sorry to hear about your son’s battle with cancer. When I was diagnosed, I too was bombarded with people telling me to try this and that. I think our bodies have been wired for the drugstore medicines, shots, vaccines, etc. So we have never had a chance to go the natural way. The Amish are born into the natural way and have learned through generations what works and what may not. As far as cancer goes, I opted for a bone marrow transplant. God has provided for us the things we need as in natural remedies, and He has also given us the doctors with their great expertise in treating illness and disease. I pray your son gets better and the treatment he needs.

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    Emma
    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 10:19)

    I’ve definitely had my share of natural remedies. My mom had me going to a homeopath a few years back, and all he does is give you natural stuff. I, personally, would rather go for the natural stuff instead of store bought medicines. I’ve taken plenty of strange things in my lifetime and, although, not everything has worked the way I expected it to, I think there’s definitely an affect. Whether it’s actually pointed at what you’re taking it for or for the deeper cause of your sickness, I think there might be a slight change somewhere.

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    A non-believer (September 22nd, 2011 at 10:23)

    A non-believer

    I dont believe in “natural remedies,” as a whole. They used to call it quackery.
    Excuse me here, Erik, while I peel off all those rotten eggs and tomatoes (not to mention some catnip and burdock leaves) that I just got plastered with by angry “believers.” :-)
    About ten years ago I did a serious look into herbology. There are tens of thousands of “cures” in the books. Scientific testing has proven that a few of them actually work. The proof is that less than 5% of herbal remedies given in the books actually have scientific data (by that I mean controlled studies using double blind methods, etc) to back them up.
    Beyond that, many of the “alternative” therapies fall within the scope of witchcraft: acupuncture, radiethesia (black boxes or pendulums swinging over medicines to find which one you need), muscle testing, reflexology, homeopathy, to name a few. I suggest the book On Alternative Medicine, (http://www.elcristianismoprimitivo.com/english/on-alternative-medicine.htm) published by the Nationwide Mennonites as a good starting point.
    I understand that the high cost of medical care is driving folks toward “natural” remedies. But the sad thing is to see people run out the door of the hospital right into the door of the hucksters who peddle 1001 “natural” remedies, and believe me, many of them ain’t cheap! And most of them simply dont work.
    I am not saying there is nothing at all to natural remedies, I am only saying that about 90% of it is old fashioned snake oil quackery.
    B&W salve is one that is good. But you dont need B&W. One of its main ingredients is honey, if I remember right. Honey has been used on burns for many centuries. It is not a miracle cure, it is simply something that can be put on a burn to mollify (keep it soft) the wound and at the same time keep out germs. The natural ph of honey is such that most bacteria cannot live in it. But as the honey lies on the wound, the body fluids soak into the honey and the ph changes. So after a couple of hours, the ph slowly rises to normal, and the bacteria-killing ability is gone. So to keep the bacteria-inhibiting abilities fresh, a new batch of honey is needed.
    So, folks, use your common sense when messing with “natural remedies.” It was reported in Time magazine when I did my research 10 years ago how that the major herb companies got together regularly and decided which product they were going to push. When the new wore off, and people wisened up to the fact that Goja berries, or whatever health fad was then being pushed, didnt really have any magical properties after all, the companies would then call a meeting and decide which product they were going to unitedly promote next. (The Mormons are big promoters of natural medicine, with 90% of all the big herbal companies based in Utah.)
    Phew, ok Erik, better get some ointment and come on up here to Terre Hill to give me a treatment for bruises. I think I feel I am about to be bashed for calling most “natural” remedies quackery. :-)
    Mike
    (PS) I have said my piece, I dont plan to get into any long discussions about it.)

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      Shawn
      Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 13:42)

      Well, it doesn’t surprise me, since you not only lack knowledge but also communication skills.

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    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 10:33)

    Recently I read an article about the many uses of honey and cinnamon that really seem to work. I had been coughing a lot recently and decided to try the honey and water. The coughing has almost ceased. Another time I had an opportunity to obtain a home made salve that had many herbal ingredients such as lavendar, menthol, euculyptus, jojoba, cinnamon etc. I applied it to a growth I had in my nose that was hurting. It took a while but eventually the growth went away and has not returned. That was over two years ago. In the beginning I used a product from the gorcery store that is supposed to heal fairly quickly but wasn’t working for me. The home remedy did. It took a little longer but I am glad I don’t have that to contend with anymore. I also use the salve for burns and cuts. Heals almost instantly. So I guess you could say that I am a definite believer in home remedies. They work for the Amish and they worked for the Indians so that’s all the confrimation I need. I also believe that there are times when we do have to rely on the other types of medicine so I think there is room for both and probably they could be used together.

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    Bridget
    Traditional Medicines (September 22nd, 2011 at 10:38)

    Traditional Medicines

    Erik–

    It took me a few seconds to realize that you used “traditional medicine” to refer to pills and such. I guess that IS traditional to many people now, but I hadn’t thought of it that way before.

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    Rachel
    Natural/Organic all the way! (September 22nd, 2011 at 11:14)

    Natural/Organic all the way!

    I believe also that God has put everything we need right hear on earth for us to live. Look how far we have came with just building a simple house! You know sometimes I sit and think that all of this sickness comes from what we put in our bodys and also what we put on the outside also. God made everything for us simple. We are to eat the fruit of the earth, and we are to grow old without having to apply anti-wrikle cream twice a day ;-) Nowdays I believe people have no idea what their putting in their bodys! All the food now is far from being grow the right way. We do not need all the chemicals and pestisides that our out their. And we do not need to put lotions and hairsprays that are full of chimcals on the outside of our bodys. People need to start eating natural and organic as often as possible. I know it’s exspensive, and we do not have alot of money, but we believe that God has givin the best gift we could have. A body and a life. We believe we have to take care of ourselves, and we believe also that God is not the one that gives us humans cancer, dieabeaties, diesease, ect. We humans do it to ourselves. God has provided this earth with everthing we need. He created us, so i’m sure he filled the earth with supplise to heal us the natural way. After all God is way smarter than any of us. Who knows, the cure for cancer could very well be the soft grass that we walk apon, or bark of a tree. And even if man does know the cure for cancer, why would they spill it? It would save millions of lives every day. We need to go back to the way God says it. Eat the meat(all fruit/food) that i have provided for you. Nowhere does it say eat the foolish mans food that is filled with chimcals and pestisides that will sooner or later take effect on your body. Eat the fruit of the earth!

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    Dena
    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 11:34)

    I totally agree with natural remedies but also believe there is a time when only conventional medicine can work…strep throat is one disease that must be treated by antibiotics, for example. I believe you have to show discretion when deciding if you can get the relief you need from natural medicine or if conventional medicine is necessary.

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    Lois Morgan
    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 12:01)

    I am of two minds on this topic, plus a third, just to make things more complicated. I believe in the natural way of healing for many reasons, one of which is the theory of self limiting disorders or diseases. By the time one gets to the point of needing to treat lots of disorders, the disorder is on the way to limiting itself. Medicine for coughs, fevers, aches and pains of old age and overwork are among these things. Medicine, natural or prescription, is not needed, but may have a great placebo effect and just what the doctor ordered or would have ordered if he or she had been consulted. The rush to health via drugs is a very dangerous path and one that can eventually hurt you a lot. Many drug allergies don’t just spring up out of nowhere.They are the result of taking a drug which may have been prescribed for one of the self limiting diseases I just mentioned, because the patient “insisted” on being treated.The pharmaceutical industry is just that: a business, and to flourish it has to have many willing adherents.Likewise the natural healing industry. So the third way can be enhanced simply by waiting lots of things out, resting, drinking lots of water and getting enough sleep.

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    Chelsea
    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 12:04)

    I am not sold on herbal remedies. I have tried a few and they did not work for me, I have had to go the route of traditional medicine if I need to take something. About the only “herbal” remedy that works occasionally for me is caffine for headaches and that doesn’t even always do the trick. I do not mind trying remedies if I know enough about them but I am not one to just try them left and right. I have a friend whose mom had a brain bleed because she used a herbal pill for weight loss (the doctors are linking the two together) and almost died because of it. So many people think that just because it’s an herbal and found naturally on this earth that it is okay to use. Unfortunately, that’s not always the case because arsenic is found naturally on earth but it is certainly not good for us. As for herbal doctors out there, I try to stay clear of them. I feel they push too hard for only the herbal remedies and may not consider the side effects as much as a traditional doctor would. I tend to ask my doctor what she thinks about any herbal remedy/pill I am thinking of trying before I actually do. There have been some she says to go ahead and try and others she says not to, but as I said before, they haven’t worked for me.

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    PruWeb
    Am I Missing Something? (September 22nd, 2011 at 12:28)

    Am I Missing Something?

    I can’t help but think not only you, Eric, but those who have made comments have been missing a fundamental idea about “natural medicines” vs. “conventional medicines.” Don’t ALL medicines (more or less) come from plants or, like vaccines, animals? When the term “natural” is being used, what exactly is being referred to? “Pills” are a condensed form of active ingredients found in plants, although whatever else is put in those “pills” I don’t have knowledge of. When such condensed active plant ingredients are ingested, how can anyone help but get immediate relief AND unintended side effects. When a plant is ingested in its found (“natural”?) state, the active ingredients are in a form that the body can digest, use, assimilate slowly — that is why their effect is not as immediate (i.e., making a tea of the bark of the willow tree instead of “taking an aspirin.” Plant extracts, including willow bark and spiraea, of which salicylic acid was the active ingredient, were the source of aspirin. Now it is made synthetically). So, to have a discussion regarding “natural” vs. “conventional” medicine, perhaps it would be better to phrase the discussion in with the terms “medicine derived from plant extracts in their ‘natural’ found state” and “medicine derived from plant extracts in a condensed, laboratory derived state.” I know this is cumbersome, but it at least makes the discussion clear.

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    Christina
    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 12:49)

    Interesting discussion Erik! I think we need to strike a balance between natural and modern medicine. Certainly there are ailments that can be cured using natural ingredients. As a matter of fact, the best athlete’s foot remedy that works for me is made of vinegar and essential oils. But, that is what works on me. It might not work for someone else. I’ve tried other natural remedies and had no luck. But, as there are ailments that could be cured using natural remedies, many of today’s bacteria and viruses have morphed into “superbugs” and are resistant to even the modern medicines because of over use of these meds.

    I tend to wonder if our diets and processing of food also has contributed to the need for modern medicines. If we ate like people did 150 years ago, would the herbal remedies work? A curious question with no way to prove really.

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    Shawn
    I'm all for natural remedies (September 22nd, 2011 at 13:34)

    I'm all for natural remedies

    I totally believe in natural remedies vs. pharmaceuticals. In fact, I am totally against any and all pharmaceuticals. I used to only take Tylenol for headaches, but then I found out that that causes liver damage, and that headaches are actually a sign of toxins built up in the brain, and that all you have to do is drink a glass of clean water. Viola! It works! Now, whenever I get a headache, I down a few gulps of water (distilled works particularly well, BTW), and within 5 minutes, headache’s gone, vs. Tylenol took 20 minutes to work, not to mention other damage. As I leaf through magazines, I see all the warnings about pharmaceuticals, and I see that although you may temporarily mask one problem, you’ve added five more. I have a list of ailments and their natural remedies, which includes fighting cancer, and they always work so well for me. They’re so much cheaper too. My mom takes tons of medications and she gets worse, worse, worse…I treated her sinus infection with echinacea after a year of antibiotics and the echinachea worked. Not the antibiotics. So, I totally believe in natural remedies. The pharmaceutical companies just make tons of money, “hooking your world on drugs.” BTW, google CCHR for a REAL scare on pharmaceuticals, as if the magazine ads/warnings aren’t bad enough!

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    Grandma's Mustard Plaster (September 22nd, 2011 at 14:25)

    Grandma's Mustard Plaster

    Well, I don’t know if I do or not. I was sick a lot as a child, often with bronchitis or pneumonia. Grandma treated chest colds with mustard plasters–some kind of herbal mish-mash wrapped in a cloth, which was applied to the chest. It generated heat and turned your skin pinky-red. Doctors made house calls back then. Ours would come with meds in his black bag. Eventually, I always recovered, but who knows whether it was because of one or other of the remedies, both of them together, or neither?

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    Jane Reeves
    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 22nd, 2011 at 19:03)

    @Patty Tolliver – What are the portions of water and honey for a cough? I have a cough I need to get try and get rid of.
    Thanks

  • Some common-sense skepticism is needed about unproven remedies

    I’m skeptical about “natural” remedies. They rely on testimonials from users. Although testimonials may sound convincing, they ignore the placebo effect. That is to say, many people with a symptom will FEEL better after taking a sugar pill.

    Medicines manufactured by big pharmacetical companies have been tested in many ways, including double-blind, controlled tests which can prove if a given medication is actually “working” or merely acting as a placebo.

    User Primative Christianity brings up another good point. The way in which many “natural” remedies are marketed is often “scammy” or even downright unethical. Sadly, some people are suckered into wasting their time and money on these dangerous treatments.

    Lastly a pet peeve of mine is people who assume anything “natural” is good. It’s not. Poison ivy is “all natural”. Street drugs like cocaine come from “natural” ingredients too. That doesn’t mean they’re good for you.

    Big pharma companies have the funds to test drugs, to learn exactly how they work, and the means to produce them safely and in quantity. They also have reputations to protect and can stand behind their products. Rinky-dink all-natural cure-all companies have none of this.

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    Ohioan
    Partial Believer (September 22nd, 2011 at 21:04)

    Partial Believer

    I was never into natural remedies until I blacked out after taking an OTC medicine for a bad sinus infection. After that, I looked into natural cures and started using elderberry tea for colds and the like. It didn’t cure sniffles and inflamation but it greatly relieved those symptoms. People squinted at me when I said it worked. Now, years later, elderberry cold products are quite prevalent. So, I’m not sure about other natural remedies but elderberries do work for me.

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    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 23rd, 2011 at 10:33)

    Great discussion Eric. I have been using “natural” health remedies for about 25 years and I believe that it has given me a quality of life that I would not have had if I would have continued with the pharmaceutical treatment that I was getting. Many times we don’t give the natural remedies enough time to do their work in our self healing bodies. Why do we wait until we see or feel a symptom before we do anything about our health? Prevention is so much better than having to wait for a cure.
    Each person has to experience this for themselves. I also thankful for the medical doctors that have helped me in an emergency.

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    Mona G.
    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 23rd, 2011 at 19:18)

    I agree with a lot of you…home remedies can help. I have a friend who uses Lemon & Honey mixed together and just sip with a spoon for sore throat, she swears by it…..and I’ve always heard to gargle with warm water with salt for sore throat too, I have done them both and I will say it does help…..I have heard of others too, but just can’t think of them at the moment…..so don’t knock it till you’ve tried them…..some people will run to the doctor as soon as they get any kind of pain…..I try to stay away from the doctors…..seems every time you go, they keep you coming back…..they will say try this and if it doesn’t work, come back and we’ll try something else……and it goes on and on…..get my point ? Some lady the other day on DR. OZ said she eats PICKLES to keep from getting bruised so easily……and it works for her……. if you can, watch Dr. Oz he offers some good advice …….so check it out…..

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    Greg
    Home remedy caution (September 25th, 2011 at 08:10)

    Home remedy caution

    I am a believer of some home remedies, but caution needs to be used. Last June, the Amish community near me suffered a loss over the use of home remedies for a burn incident. The woman died. I’m linking two stories (the second has a video). My understanding from talking to someone near the incident, the use of Burdock was involved.

    http://www.indianagazette.com/a_news/article_113630d5-97e5-5a16-a3a7-807944844f49.html

    http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2011/06/02/indiana-co-amish-woman-killed-in-laundry-accident/

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    Do you believe in natural remedies? (September 25th, 2011 at 13:22)

    Well, there are herbs that are effective, for sure, but I tend to use mostly conventional drugs, plantbased or not. I do believe in taking vitamin D to escape colds and winter depressions but that is about it in alternative therapy for me.

    I do not 2000% believe in homeopathy, I am deeply angered that there are people out there selling water and sugarpills and say that it is real medicine. I know some people claim to be helped by homeopathy but I think it due to placebo.

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    Debbie Welsh
    Do you believe in natural remedies? (October 3rd, 2011 at 13:13)

    Just returned from a long week in Lancaster County, PA, and was in an Amish bulk/grocery store down in the little town of Kirkwood and there was an entire aisle dedicated to natural and ” home ” type remedies, with simple writing on the plain white bottles saying things like ” good for stomachache “, ” for headache “, ” to aide in digestion “, etc.. It was just mind blowing and I thought to myself, do the Amish really use these? And do any of them actually and truly work?

    Like many others here I believe there are some natural remedies that really do work, and I wish there were a whole lot more as I don’t think any of us like putting any of these pharmaceutical based drugs in our bodies. But until they can come up with natural remedies that are tried, tested, and safe, I guess we don’t really have an alternative.

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