14 responses to Kentucky Amish Near SMV Freedom?
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    Richard from Amish Stories
    Comment on the American Civil Liberties Union ..................... (March 16th, 2012 at 06:41)

    the American Civil Liberties Union .....................

    First when i hear the American Civil Liberties Union is involved in anything i usually go the opposite way to whatever nonsense they are belching out, so they serve no purpose to me other than to argue for the sake of arguing. Now for what I’ve seen most of the Amish in my area who especially travel at night have their lights blinking so for me that really helps me see them on the road, now I’ve been behind some (Amish buggies) who decided not to do that and i didn’t see them until i was almost right on top of them! So regardless of the decision from the courts in my mind the Amish in Kentucky should have some reflective warning on the back of their buggies, and if they dont already have lights then that should be included as well. I’m very big on religious freedom but for me it can not trump safety for them or anyone else. That’s my 2 cents anyway. Richard

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    Al in Ky.
    Comment on Kentucky Amish Near SMV Freedom? (March 16th, 2012 at 07:13)

    Thanks for keeping us posted about the status of this issue in Ky.

    I have a question about “horse-and-buggy” history. In the early
    1900’s when our country was making the transition between use
    of horse-drawn vehicles and use of cars, what safety measures
    were used then on horse-drawn vehicles? Did they have the orange
    SMV sign then? When many people were driving cars, but some
    were still driving horse-drawn vehicles were there many accidents?
    I realize that when cars were first used, they were driven much,
    much more slowly than today, but it seems like there still would have been a safety issue.

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      Lattice
      Comment on Kentucky Amish Near SMV Freedom? (March 16th, 2012 at 09:50)

      Hi Al. Just my opinion, but I doubt that, at that time, the roads were conducive to speeds greater than 25-30 mph. Cars were pretty rough rides, I would imagine. It seems to be the advent of straight, paved-surface roads that are so threatening to the safety of horse, buggy, and driver. Smooth, paved roads and comfortable vehicles (shocks/suspension) seem to be the culprit, to me, anyway.

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        Comment on Kentucky Amish Near SMV Freedom? (March 17th, 2012 at 15:28)

        Good question Al, and Lattice your response sounds pretty plausible though I haven’t done any research on that period of time. I like your insight about comfortable vehicles encouraging higher speeds, especially since I just traveled in a bus today that seemed to lack any sort of shocks or suspension. You could feel every pebble and road-bug :)

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    Alice Aber
    Comment on Amish safety and religion (March 16th, 2012 at 08:01)

    Amish safety and religion

    Greetings!!

    I have to agree with Richard in that safety needs to be a priority. I do sympathize with the Amish in their religious beliefs, however when driving in their buggies at night they need some measures of safety. I do not know if the lights being at different levels would help or not, especially with vehicle drivers who are unfamiliar with their use. I can picture myself slowing down at the site of unfamiliar lights but I cannot say the same for others.

    In high traffic areas especially, I would like to see even more safety measures taken. SMV’s, reflective tape, lights. Everything possible to make the buggies more visable. I cannot imagine what I would feel like if I crashed into a buggy and killed someone simply because I did not see them!! And I am a very cautious driver. We have way too many reckless drivers on the road these days.

    I do hope this is resolved to the best for everyone on the road, Amish and us outsiders alike.

    Blessings, Alice

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      Comment on Buggy lighting layout--staggered vs. even (March 17th, 2012 at 15:50)

      Buggy lighting layout--staggered vs. even

      Alice I hope it is resolved as well, the contrast between the lowest Amish buggy lighting vs. the most technologically-friendly groups as you know is pretty stark, your “hometown” (or close to hometown) Amish near Arthur are among the more lit-up buggies on the roads.

      What I was thinking with the staggered form of lighting is that it might confuse a driver’s sense of perspective, with one light perhaps seeming further down the road. I’m pretty sure it would be a unique positioning, does any other road vehicle place their lighting in an asymmetrical fasion like that?

      So in asking the question I do wonder if any tests have been done comparing the two forms of lighting, as they have been done with other buggy safety implements. What has led them to that stipulation? It didn’t originate with Kentucky lawmakers, as other Swartzentruber Amish do hang their lamps in such fashion. But I wonder what originated that practice–someone’s hunch, hard evidence or something else? I do not know the answer to that.

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    Ky Amish Friend
    Comment on Facts (March 16th, 2012 at 08:51)

    Facts

    I live in KY near the Amish that are being jailed. They use 109″ of highly reflective tape now and the SMV triangle is only 79″ of reflective material. They can bee seen at night because of the photo’s I’ve taken and those are the same photo’s used by KY Senator Ken Winters, the Transportation Committee couldn’t believe how much reflection the tape put off compared to the triangle. One of the reason the Transportation committee is in favor of the tape vs. the triangle. We put two buggies side beside, one with the triangle and one with tape. Unbelievable how much difference there is. Also, the will be required to use the tape on the sides and front of the buggy. In roads have the yellow signs warning that there are buggies in the area, same as the school crossing signs. Some people need to just slow down and “SEE THE SIGNS”. This group of Amish are the most strict of any of the Amish. This reflective tape would help see the buggy’s on a hill crest unlike the triangle, the tape will outline the whole back of the buggy and the triangle is only 3′ off the ground, to low to see until you are at the crest of the hill. Some comment and have never seen this tape at night. Just my 2 cents worth.

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      Lance
      Comment on Thanks for your factual input (March 16th, 2012 at 10:05)

      Thanks for your factual input

      As was pointed out above, the reflective tape is BRIGHT under the shine of headlights. The tape is placed around the outer edge of the buggy and therefore not concentrated in one spot like the SMV sign. The SMV is only more visible during daylight. The reflective tape is brighter at night and higher up on the buggies so that a buggy going over a hill is illuminated before a SMV symbol equiped buggy would be. SMV symbols and flashing lights do not prevent accidents, especially in this world of distracted or impaired drivers. The effect of SMV symbols has proven to be only minor with preventing or reducing farm equipment accidents and I believe it is the same with buggies.

      We, the people forcing these ‘safety’ devices upon unwilling subjects, need to be more humble, and believing that God is in control, that he will prevent or allow an accident as is according to His Will for his people. We cannot control God with signs. His Will be done and to God be the Glory.

      • Reflective tape vs. SMV triangle on Amish buggies

        The argument for reflective tape vs. the SMV triangle does seem convincing. It’s worth remembering that for many Amish the SMV triangle is just one element of an entire visibility regimen including a range of lights and reflectors. But if you had to choose only one, I’m open to the idea that the tape is superior to the SMV, particularly given the hills and changing elevation aspect.

        I’ve been going through old Family Life clippings lately and have hit upon a number of buggy safety articles, from the early 90s and earlier. I read mention of *black* reflective tape which surprised me as I was under the impression that it was mainly silver or white in color. Perhaps that is just a descriptive term used by the writer.

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    Katrina
    Comment on Blinking lights (March 16th, 2012 at 19:43)

    Blinking lights

    I thought that blinking lights tended to attract the attention of drunk drivers, and then the drivers drove towards the blinking lights, thus increasing the possibility of a crash and injuries. I vaguely remember reading this as an academic study that was published in the early 1990’s.

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      Comment on Kentucky Amish Near SMV Freedom? (March 17th, 2012 at 15:51)

      Katrina, I had never heard that, but interesting. That sounds like a pretty intoxicated driver though.

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        OldKat
        Comment on She is correct ... (March 19th, 2012 at 08:32)

        She is correct ...

        My (much) older brother is a retired police officer. He worked for the PD in a major city for about 30 to 35 years; with about 20 of that as an accident investigator. How would you like to spend the entire day, every day investigating automobile accidents?

        Anyway, he told me one time that when drunk drivers get to a certain level of inebriation they are drawn to taillights instead of taking measures to avoid them. He said that if they get drunk enough they will actually even be drawn to flashing lights too; just like Katrina mentioned. That is really encouraging, isn’t it?

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    Slightly-handled-Order-man
    Comment on Reflective triangles in the evening’s twilight (March 16th, 2012 at 21:28)

    Reflective triangles in the evening’s twilight

    I sort of think that its like when Englishers invented the automobile, I figure most people thought it needed a warning system because it went comparatively fast; the opposite of the Amish dilemma.
    Look both ways, listen for the clatter of horses hooves, and watch for reflective pieces as you cross the street and walk into the evening’s twilight everyone.

    ~ SHOM

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      Comment on Kentucky Amish Near SMV Freedom? (March 17th, 2012 at 15:57)

      Shom I brought this issue up in one of my classes in a roundabout discussion (we were actually talking about driverless cars) and a student mentioned something about a warning bell on early autos sounding the alarm for pedestrians ahead…I’m not sure of the veracity of that claim but seems like I’ve heard something along those lines.

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